Episode 408
How to Stop Being Codependent and Live Authentically as a Man with Josh Tomeoni
Do you find yourself constantly adjusting your behavior to please those around you? Josh Tomeoni unpacks the challenges of codependency, its impact on men's lives and how to break free from its grip. He shares his personal journey of overcoming codependent tendencies and finding his authentic self. We discussed the societal pressures that often push men towards unhealthy expressions of masculinity and how to replace it with a more authentic approach to manhood.
Josh reveals how his divorce and subsequent relationship challenges led him to confront his codependent patterns. He emphasizes the value of self-reflection and personal growth in breaking free from these destructive habits. Learn how asking yourself tough questions and envisioning your future self can guide you toward a more fulfilling life. Discover how to reclaim your identity, build genuine connections, and create a life that truly reflects who you are.
In this episode, you will be able to:
- Embrace healthier relationships by overcoming codependency for men.
- Unlock personal growth by discovering your true self in midlife.
- Learn vital strategies for embodying healthy masculinity in everyday life.
- Elevate personal growth through the importance of accountability.
- Gain valuable insights for navigating post-divorce relationships.
The key moments in this episode are:
00:10:35 - Understanding Codependency
00:15:33 - Choosing Interdependency
00:20:49 - Healthy Masculinity and Relationships
00:25:55 - Focusing on Self-Love and Empathy
00:32:34 - Earning Respect
00:42:49 - Aligning Actions with Long-Term Goals
00:46:39 - Surrounding Oneself with Influential People
Connect with Josh Tomeoni
Website
https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshuatomeoni/
https://www.instagram.com/thederelictpodcast
Connect with Mike Forrester
Podcast Website
https://LivingFearlessTodayPodcast.com
Coaching Website
https://www.linkedin.com/in/hicoachmike/
Youtube
https://www.youtube.com/@hicoachmike
https://www.facebook.com/hicoachmike
https://www.instagram.com/hicoachmike
Transcript
Well, hello and welcome back my friend, and this week we're gonna
Speaker:be jumping into talking about like codependency, what it is and some of
Speaker:the challenges that come with it that we might not realize on the surface.
Speaker:We're also gonna get into like discerning, you know, who am I?
Speaker:Too many of us as guys are just kinda walking around either with the
Speaker:expectation, you know, that family, friends, people we trust have placed
Speaker:on us and we're just kind of filling a role, almost stepping into, um, like
Speaker:a character that's not actually true to who we are, what we're gifted with,
Speaker:and actually what we enjoy about life.
Speaker:So we're gonna get it on all into all that today.
Speaker:And, uh, Josh Tomeoni is my guest.
Speaker:And, uh, Josh has an amazing story of just figuring out who
Speaker:he is from that midlife crisis.
Speaker:And then also discovering, you know, Hey, I don't need to be codependent.
Speaker:I'm dependent upon myself.
Speaker:And that true north, having the rudder to steer where he's going without looking
Speaker:for somebody's approval and validation.
Speaker:So, Well, dude, let's, let's start off with what does life look
Speaker:like for you on the professional side of things as far as work?
Speaker:Ooh, that's a hard one to answer in a couple seconds,
Speaker:but I'll, I'll try to be quick.
Speaker:So I, I run a financial planning company and in that we coach mainly families.
Speaker:And help them with their finances.
Speaker:So everything from what they own, what they owe, their insurance, their cash
Speaker:flow, their budget, their retirement, everything, anything that falls
Speaker:under finances, taxes, et cetera.
Speaker:And essentially what we do is we help them look at the biggest financial threats in
Speaker:their life and address those one by one.
Speaker:We do that by creating a written plan for them, and then by ongoing maintenance of
Speaker:that plan, people pay me a monthly fee just to be able to continue to get that.
Speaker:We have group coaching calls, we educate people, we help people basically take
Speaker:all the, you know, 8 million billion kazillion things on Google and AI
Speaker:and everything else and actually make it make sense for them specifically.
Speaker:So I've done that for pretty much my entire adult career.
Speaker:The company has transformed several times over that.
Speaker:So if we wanna talk about failures or changes or what you said
Speaker:before, like kind of who am I?
Speaker:I've had that moment just in my career alone.
Speaker:Uh, and then the other side of my world is a, uh, media company
Speaker:that also includes a podcast.
Speaker:But specifically with that company, the main purpose is coaching men.
Speaker:So just like you, I know you coach men as well.
Speaker:I coach men that are, you know, a, a big portion of my men that I coach are
Speaker:a DHD entrepreneur types that are, you know, looking at some advice on sales
Speaker:limiting mindsets like the beliefs, whatever's keeping them from 2.0.
Speaker:I have a really big passion for helping men try to become more authentic, true
Speaker:masculine versions of themselves because I firmly believe that a lot of society.
Speaker:Says that masculinity is evil, it's toxic, it's chauvinistic, no matter
Speaker:what, and the answer isn't healthy masculinity, the answer is femininity.
Speaker:And that has really destroyed a good part of our society because instead of
Speaker:people looking for healthy masculinity, they're looking for femininity.
Speaker:And femininity does not solve bad masculinity only.
Speaker:Good masculinity does.
Speaker:So that's a whole nother topic.
Speaker:But I'm really passionate about that and I'm really passionate, especially, you
Speaker:know, that midlife stage, the stage I'm in, I'm 41 years old as of the time of
Speaker:this recording that, and, you know, I, I talk about this a lot and as a really,
Speaker:I, I don't wanna start with such a somber statistic, but let's just start here.
Speaker:The highest rate of suicide in the country is 35 to 50-year-old men.
Speaker:And I think the reason that that's the highest rate of suicide is
Speaker:because those men are generally in a position where they're transitioning
Speaker:to some other version of themselves.
Speaker:You know, we often hear midlife crisis, and I think it's the time
Speaker:when guys are like, I don't know.
Speaker:I don't know.
Speaker:Like I just don't know.
Speaker:Like this is the first time in my life I can't just put my head
Speaker:down and figure something out.
Speaker:I don't know how to get to this next stage.
Speaker:And for some guys it's unbearable.
Speaker:And for some guys, they just decide.
Speaker:It's not worth it.
Speaker:So I'm really passionate about that demographic.
Speaker:I'm in it myself and you know, I just want to be a light for the men that
Speaker:I didn't have as a light when I went through difficult things like business
Speaker:failures, divorce and everything else.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And it's also bookended by the fact of like when you look at
Speaker:men that are retired, you know, their purpose is then gone.
Speaker:And it's like, now what?
Speaker:So yeah, absolutely.
Speaker:I saw my grandpa was a perfect example of that.
Speaker:He retired pretty young.
Speaker:Uh, he worked for the state pretty much all of his life.
Speaker:So he had government jobs, he had a great pension and everything else.
Speaker:So he, it was easy for him to retire early because he had pension, social security,
Speaker:and everything else when like people actually had those things back in the day.
Speaker:But then what I saw him do is I saw him sit on his couch.
Speaker:Read massive books, watch the news, get in a mental terrible head space.
Speaker:'cause that's the only head space you can be in if you watch the
Speaker:news, which is not even news.
Speaker:And, uh, just slowly wither away till he died.
Speaker:And that's just sad.
Speaker:It's a sad way to end your life after, after such an amazing like career.
Speaker:He was a great dad and husband and grandpa and everything else.
Speaker:Yeah, and that's definitely the thing we're looking to avoid is helping
Speaker:men to understand like their purpose, who they are, you know, all these
Speaker:foundational things that hold us up.
Speaker:And once we have them, we're able to like weather the things that come.
Speaker:I. You know, in day-to-day life and long term.
Speaker:So Yeah.
Speaker:I totally get it, man.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Well, let's, let's transition and jump over to what does life look like for
Speaker:you on the personal side of things?
Speaker:Sure.
Speaker:Uh, I am a dad.
Speaker:I have three kids.
Speaker:They're awesome.
Speaker:Absolutely love them.
Speaker:Uh, I am single.
Speaker:I was married at one point.
Speaker:I'm divorced now.
Speaker:Uh, again, as of the time of this recording, I'm about seven
Speaker:months out from a two year relationship that I was a part of.
Speaker:That in many ways for any of your listeners that have been through
Speaker:divorce before will understand this.
Speaker:I never understood it until I got divorced and had another relationship afterwards.
Speaker:In many ways, the first really like major relationship after your divorce
Speaker:is kind of harder than the divorce, even if you go through a really rough one.
Speaker:So that was, that was another just kind, you know, 2.0 version of myself
Speaker:that I had to learn here even recently.
Speaker:So it's constantly changing and that's what I love about life.
Speaker:But.
Speaker:What else?
Speaker:I don't know.
Speaker:I love being outdoors.
Speaker:I mean, the beard, you probably would've guessed it.
Speaker:Uh, I live in the Pacific Northwest, so I love being outdoors, whatever that means.
Speaker:I love to travel.
Speaker:I travel, I, yeah, I try to travel at least one international
Speaker:place every single year.
Speaker:Um, yeah, I do, uh, a lot of fun stuff.
Speaker:Like I'm, I'm the guy that will be at a music festival, but then I'll also
Speaker:just chill on the couch for a bit.
Speaker:So it just depends.
Speaker:Understanding what like brings you to life, what brings you
Speaker:that joy and recharges you.
Speaker:And many men don't get that.
Speaker:So I think you understanding that and being able to participate in those,
Speaker:and I think that, you know, just.
Speaker:It gives you more space or more energy we talked a little bit about
Speaker:it as far as like the codependency.
Speaker:And that's something I think we know the term, but don't really understand, one,
Speaker:what it is or two, the negative, you know, kind of implications, the results that
Speaker:can come from being a codependent man.
Speaker:Like, can you help us out with, with both what is codependency and then
Speaker:how can it negatively impact us?
Speaker:The way I understand codependency is that I am dependent upon someone
Speaker:else, their reactions, their emotions, the way they respond in order to
Speaker:feel a certain way about myself.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:So, in other words, a non codependent person or a independent person,
Speaker:or an interdependent person, and I can go over all those words later,
Speaker:but somebody who's not codependent is not depending on someone else
Speaker:for them to feel a certain way.
Speaker:So as a codependent, you know, I'm, you could call it a recovering codependent.
Speaker:I still have moments, but for the most part, I don't live
Speaker:a codependent life anymore.
Speaker:I used to though.
Speaker:Especially during my marriage and when I was codependent in my younger
Speaker:years and during my marriage, the way that I saw it play out in my life is
Speaker:that if I were to get into an argument or something else would occur, let's
Speaker:say it was with my wife or a close friend, I would be really interested in
Speaker:making sure that everything was right.
Speaker:So sometimes my intentions were great.
Speaker:It's not like intentions are always bad as a codependent.
Speaker:At the end of the day, the reason that I wanted to make things right for the
Speaker:most part was so that I could feel, okay,
Speaker:I wanna make sure that you feel a certain way, so that then
Speaker:therefore I can feel a certain way.
Speaker:So when I was living in my, the depth of codependency, it was very
Speaker:difficult for me to feel a certain way unless you felt a certain way.
Speaker:Does that make sense?
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah, it's one of those of, um, we're more the thermometer we're being, you
Speaker:know, put into whatever that relationship, whereas like a, a thermostat we are
Speaker:setting how we show up and how we feel whether, Hey, Josh, I'm, I'm elated,
Speaker:I'm ecstatic, you know, or, Hey, I'm really going through a rough time.
Speaker:It's dependent upon me, not somebody external to me.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Yeah, it's, and, and you could go too far the other way as well and be overly,
Speaker:uh, negatively independent where your feelings don't matter to me and what
Speaker:you're going through don't matter to me.
Speaker:That's not healthy either, obviously, for obvious reasons, right?
Speaker:Like if we're in some sort of a relationship, whether it's
Speaker:romantic friendship or otherwise, I should have some sort of empathy
Speaker:for what you're going through.
Speaker:Otherwise, it's not gonna be a very good relationship.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:So what I find that happens with a lot of people that are struggling
Speaker:with codependency, they're trying to get outta their codependency.
Speaker:They kind of become jerks for a while.
Speaker:'cause they're trying to figure out like, how do I do this in a way
Speaker:where like, I don't care what your emotions are, like, it, it becomes
Speaker:so extreme the other way, right?
Speaker:Where people, and, and especially somebody that's dealing with this
Speaker:in a marriage or partnership, I'm just gonna speak to you real quick.
Speaker:it's almost impossible to do that while taking other people
Speaker:into consideration at first.
Speaker:But then the goal.
Speaker:At least the goal for me, and I think probably the goal for most
Speaker:healthy people, if not all, is a term that I call interdependency,
Speaker:where I can be my own free agent.
Speaker:I can help control my own emotions.
Speaker:'cause emotions are controllable, by the way.
Speaker:It's mindset, it's patterns.
Speaker:There are things that you can do.
Speaker:Now, I'm not saying you can control when an emotion pops up, but you can control
Speaker:your response to that emotion when it does pop up, and you can allow it not to take
Speaker:over you, and you can allow it not to take over you, even if there's the pressure of
Speaker:trying to make somebody else feel better.
Speaker:The eventual goal is to become interdependent, which means
Speaker:I am independent of myself.
Speaker:I can control and manage and go through all of my emotions.
Speaker:You, as the other person in my relationship, romantic or
Speaker:otherwise, can do the same thing.
Speaker:But we are interdependent on each other, and that's where things like the team and
Speaker:the partnership comes in where I can then tell you, Mike, I'm feeling this way.
Speaker:This is where I'm at.
Speaker:This is what's going on.
Speaker:You can say, well, this is where I'm at, this is what's
Speaker:going on with me, et cetera.
Speaker:And then we could work as a team to do that, not so that
Speaker:I influence your emotion to.
Speaker:Impact myself, but more that we can be a healthy unit together.
Speaker:Does that make sense?
Speaker:Yeah, it does.
Speaker:And I think back on so many of like the interactions that I've had or I hear,
Speaker:you know, other, other guys talking about where it's like the lashing out
Speaker:or you know, being cut to the core because of what they're being told.
Speaker:And it's like you are talking about, just to be clear, a conversation not.
Speaker:Almost like a battle, right?
Speaker:Where it's like, it's, it's for sure a battle of words.
Speaker:It's, it's very, it's
Speaker:very common.
Speaker:With codependence, it was common with me as well, like if, if, if your whole
Speaker:life is revolving around trying to make sure everybody's pleased all around
Speaker:you so that you can feel good about yourself, it is a recipe for failure.
Speaker:You're gonna fail at it every single day.
Speaker:And then at a certain point, if you don't even realize you're doing it, like I
Speaker:didn't really realize I was doing it back when I was doing it, if you don't realize
Speaker:you're doing it at a certain point, you're like a tea kettle that's gonna explode.
Speaker:'cause at a certain point I can't handle it anymore.
Speaker:I can't handle all of you people.
Speaker:I don't care about any of you people.
Speaker:You can all go yourself and I'm out.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:Like you get to a level at a certain point where you're like,
Speaker:I can't handle this anymore.
Speaker:So that's, I would say, one of the insidious thing and, and here,
Speaker:here's another insidious thing about codependency, is that it's so celebrated
Speaker:in our world, especially our country.
Speaker:This goes along with love addiction or sex addiction for that matter.
Speaker:All of them are very celebrated, especially in America, especially
Speaker:in the United States of America.
Speaker:Turn on any song, watch any movie.
Speaker:Listen to any TV show, read any book, and it will be filled with codependence,
Speaker:love addicts and sex addicts.
Speaker:Anything to do with, you're my soulmate, or I need You to complete
Speaker:this aspect of myself, whatever it is, that's all codependency.
Speaker:Anytime you, anytime you hear a song that's like, well, with, without you I
Speaker:couldn't do this and now I can do this.
Speaker:That is always a flavor of codependency.
Speaker:That's not a, i, I very rarely hear a song that's that interdependent
Speaker:team nature in regards to that.
Speaker:It almost always is, well, I couldn't do this until I met you.
Speaker:Maybe it's more obvious in a way how women might do this.
Speaker:I think for men it's a little bit more hidden, but where it really shows up, what
Speaker:I've seen, and this was me as well, is guys that are trying to do the right thing
Speaker:and they're trying to keep their marriages together and they're trying to get their
Speaker:work done and they're trying not to like do stupid things like cheat on their wives
Speaker:and they're trying to be there for their kids and they're good guys in general.
Speaker:They just, they lost this ability to just be themselves and bring that presence
Speaker:into the relationship because they feel like it's gonna be toxic or it's gonna
Speaker:be chauvinistic, or it's gonna be like the things we talked about earlier, like
Speaker:it's gonna be some unhealthy version of masculinity when in reality it's
Speaker:actually the opposite because they're not bringing their full selves to that.
Speaker:Because they're not bringing their full selves, they're actually bringing
Speaker:a bad version of masculinity or maybe no masculinity whatsoever.
Speaker:And then in the, in the order of keeping the peace or making
Speaker:sure everything's okay, they're actually poisoning it underneath
Speaker:the well without even realizing it.
Speaker:And a lot of these guys aren't doing this on purpose.
Speaker:Try, I mean, I get it.
Speaker:I was there for years and years and years and years and it,
Speaker:it's this element, Mike of.
Speaker:Figuring out how to not care what anyone thinks about you in a healthy way,
Speaker:but to still have empathy for people.
Speaker:Still have love and care and concern for people.
Speaker:So it doesn't mean you don't care about people.
Speaker:It means that if I am solid and focused on who I am and me trying
Speaker:to improve and me trying to become the best man possible, then I don't
Speaker:care what you think about that.
Speaker:I still love you.
Speaker:I still care about you.
Speaker:I still want what's best for you, but I'm not gonna let you speak that into my life.
Speaker:I'm going to be that person.
Speaker:And the more we are that person, just from personal experience, the more
Speaker:people are attracted to us that actually genuinely love us and care about us.
Speaker:And the more we detract people that we shouldn't be in a relationship anyway.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I almost see it as like, you know, you're in a boat, you've got a life, uh.
Speaker:Life preserver.
Speaker:You've got the life preserver, right?
Speaker:I'm not jumping in the water with you to drown, but I'm also not ignoring you.
Speaker:So I'm on solid ground and I'm reaching out to help.
Speaker:Um,
Speaker:yeah.
Speaker:I'm not gonna sit over here and just like, not paddle and
Speaker:not throw you the life ring.
Speaker:I'm glad for that.
Speaker:We can go boating together, Josh.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:But, but I'm also like, if, if you're, if you're drowning and I
Speaker:don't have a life fest or anything else, I'm also not jumping in with
Speaker:all this crazy wave so both of us die.
Speaker:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker:There's gotta be something in between, right?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And there is, and but I don't think enough of it has been communicated or modeled in.
Speaker:Hey, this is healthy masculinity and this is a healthy relationship.
Speaker:When we look around, most of it's dysfunctional, unhealthy, both in how to
Speaker:be a man and how to be in a relationship.
Speaker:So it's from this kind of stuff.
Speaker:Absolute.
Speaker:Let, let me give you, let me give you one example.
Speaker:Sure.
Speaker:That I had to learn the hard way, excuse me, through a couple of my relationships.
Speaker:Like I said, I was more codependent in my marriage.
Speaker:In, uh.
Speaker:The last very serious relationship that I had.
Speaker:One of the things that I really appreciate, and there's a lot of really
Speaker:healthy things about this relationship, and then it transitioned as relationships
Speaker:often do, but one of the really healthy things that I learned specifically from
Speaker:this person that I thought was really healthy is that I remember even like
Speaker:when we started that I still had a good amount of codependent tendencies.
Speaker:I was learning to get away from those, and she actually helped me with that.
Speaker:'cause one of the things that I learned when I was with her is
Speaker:that she would often tell me, she's like, it's sexy when you have
Speaker:opinions and you disagree with me.
Speaker:And she would tell me that.
Speaker:And I was like, what?
Speaker:Like as a codependent, that doesn't make any sense.
Speaker:It doesn't.
Speaker:And if anyone's listening to this and you're in a codependent relationship,
Speaker:you're not gonna have any idea what I'm talking about right now.
Speaker:Guaranteed.
Speaker:That's not what happens in your relationship.
Speaker:It just doesn't, it didn't happen in my codependent relationship.
Speaker:And what I started realizing is it's not like this person
Speaker:was just looking for a fight.
Speaker:It wasn't the fact that there was a disagreement.
Speaker:It was the fact that I was staying true to myself, Irregardless of how
Speaker:she responded, regardless of whether.
Speaker:She was hurt or anything else that w that was not, I'm not saying I wasn't
Speaker:taking ownership, but if she was hurt that that's not my responsibility.
Speaker:She's hurt.
Speaker:My responsibility might be whatever action I did to lead her to get hurt, sure.
Speaker:But my responsibility is not her emotion.
Speaker:And that as a, as a co-dependence, really hard to understand.
Speaker:You are not responsible for anyone else's emotions ever.
Speaker:Including your children, including your spouse, including your friends.
Speaker:You are not responsible for anybody else's emotions except your own.
Speaker:You're responsible for actions that you take.
Speaker:That might lead to negative emotions.
Speaker:Sure, but that's a big difference.
Speaker:That's where it gets cloudy for codependence.
Speaker:'cause codependents think, oh, well, it's my action that caused that emotion.
Speaker:Therefore I'm responsible for their emotion.
Speaker:That's not accurate.
Speaker:You're responsible for your action.
Speaker:That other person can choose how to respond to that.
Speaker:That's on them.
Speaker:That's not on you.
Speaker:And I think what you pointed out there is so crucial.
Speaker:It's not just like in our marriage or like our romantic relationships.
Speaker:It can be in other relationships that this shows up as well.
Speaker:You know, like people pleasing and looking for like that validation,
Speaker:that approval at the cost of our identity and being true to ourselves.
Speaker:So.
Speaker:That's
Speaker:I'll, I'll be the first one.
Speaker:I mean, I'm, as you can tell, I'm a pretty honest, vulnerable guy already,
Speaker:but I'll, I'll, I'll give you an example.
Speaker:Like when my marriage was done and I was learning how to not be codependent at
Speaker:that point, my best friend at the time, I became codependent with him, right?
Speaker:Completely platonic friend, everything else.
Speaker:But it just transferred.
Speaker:It just transferred from my spouse to my friend, and then I had to
Speaker:learn kind of the hard way of like, oh, I'm being codependent with
Speaker:him now I'm doing the same thing.
Speaker:Like I'm wanting the validation and all the other things from him
Speaker:instead of getting it from myself.
Speaker:Because I firmly believe no matter what somebody's religious, spiritual,
Speaker:et cetera beliefs are on here.
Speaker:Just bear with me with this next statement.
Speaker:I firmly believe that the only thing that will help with that
Speaker:and the thing that would increase.
Speaker:Everyone in the world and make the world the best place possible to live
Speaker:is if I can love and cherish and have a great relationship with myself.
Speaker:And if I can love and cherish and have a great relationship with my
Speaker:higher power, my God, my universe, whatever you want to call it, that
Speaker:alone should be my sole focus.
Speaker:'cause guess what?
Speaker:Every other relationship flows outta those two relationships.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:If I can have a good relationship with my higher power and I can
Speaker:have a good relationship with myself, and I love myself, I love
Speaker:my higher power, then guess what?
Speaker:You can't love both of those things and not wanna serve humanity.
Speaker:You can't love both of those things and not have empathy and love and care
Speaker:and concern for everybody that you come across, including your enemies.
Speaker:It's impossible.
Speaker:You can't do it.
Speaker:But if all the focus is always, well, I gotta go fix somebody else, or I
Speaker:gotta go make sure that person's okay.
Speaker:It just eats away at your soul, man, and eventually you're not doing it
Speaker:for anybody and everybody gets hurt.
Speaker:So you talk to people that have kids.
Speaker:The best way to screw up your kids is to focus on your kids.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Focus on yourself and being the best parent you can be for your
Speaker:kids, and then teach your kids to be like what you're trying to be.
Speaker:But if you focus solely on your kids and the whole world, then you'll
Speaker:become codependent with your kids.
Speaker:I've seen that all the time as well.
Speaker:Well, now my kids need to feel a certain way for me to feel a certain way.
Speaker:Well, what a terrible position to put your little kids in for
Speaker:them to deal with your emotions.
Speaker:Oh, come on, you're an adult.
Speaker:Act like an adult.
Speaker:Yeah, and I think that that being passed on is something what we don't realize
Speaker:we're in that kind of codependency, but then it shows up later when those
Speaker:children are, are getting older into where we're like, why are you so entitled?
Speaker:Why are you so spoiled?
Speaker:I'm not looking in the mirror to understand that and see that, but.
Speaker:It's nothing more than what we've taught them and the relationship like dance that
Speaker:we've gone through them, you know, through their ages now is turning around and it's
Speaker:like, wait a minute, how did you get here?
Speaker:I didn't raise you like this.
Speaker:Yes, a hundred percent
Speaker:brother.
Speaker:It, it's easy for, I mean, you, you and I like, we look like we're
Speaker:probably in the same age demographic.
Speaker:It's easy for both of us to look at a generation or two younger than both of
Speaker:us and be like, oh, those darn kids.
Speaker:They don't respect us.
Speaker:They don't do rah rah you.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Like you say whatever you want.
Speaker:Okay, but where did the kids come from?
Speaker:Us?
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:So like, how much are we just gonna blame the next generation versus, you know,
Speaker:what, what's the, what's the saying?
Speaker:If you're pointing at one person, you have four fingers pointing back at you.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Or something that, you know, a famous prophet once said, don't look at that
Speaker:little speck in that person's eye.
Speaker:Look at a huge board, the huge plank in your own.
Speaker:I mean, hypocrisy is, it's easy to do that though.
Speaker:Like I, again, I'll raise my hand and be like, I've done it for sure.
Speaker:But you're absolutely right.
Speaker:It still starts with us, and that's the whole point here.
Speaker:The whole point is it seems like on its surface level, if you say,
Speaker:well, I'm doing this for the kids, I'm doing it for this marriage, et
Speaker:cetera, that seems like a good thing.
Speaker:It seems like you're doing it for someone else.
Speaker:It seems like you're being selfless.
Speaker:Selfless.
Speaker:Excuse me.
Speaker:It seems like that is a great thing to do, but if you dig underneath the surface,
Speaker:it's not that, because what it is, is it's ignoring who you are and you becoming
Speaker:the best version of yourself, which is the best way to influence those people.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:It's also like the most powerful thing that we can teach them when
Speaker:we're finding out who we are.
Speaker:They're seeing that they then learn, Hey, how do I determine who I am without
Speaker:like the expectations that mom, dad, you know, whomever is placing on me.
Speaker:They grow up and they're, they're able to fast track what.
Speaker:We got caught up in right.
Speaker:We learned unhealthy things.
Speaker:We behave in an unhealthy way.
Speaker:Well, when we teach our children to be healthy, they don't have all those
Speaker:anchors and things tethering them.
Speaker:To an unhealthy, you know, mindset and behavior.
Speaker:And dude, it's, it's like just putting 'em on nitrous oxide.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:For sure.
Speaker:And, and like, you know, I'm, I'm seeing it with my kids now.
Speaker:My, my oldest is 12 as of the time of this recording.
Speaker:He just started middle school.
Speaker:So he's in that pre-teen, like, I'm gonna say no to you just to say no to
Speaker:you to see what happens sort of phase.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And, uh, great kid.
Speaker:Love him to death.
Speaker:My only son, right?
Speaker:He'll always have a special place in my heart no matter what.
Speaker:And it's challenging because it's very easy for me as a father to kind of revert
Speaker:to things that I learned growing up and be like, mm-hmm, you will respect me.
Speaker:I am your father.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:And that doesn't do anything.
Speaker:And have I said that before?
Speaker:Sure I have.
Speaker:I'll admit it.
Speaker:But it doesn't, you know, you have to earn respect no matter what.
Speaker:Some people disagree with this statement, and I'll disagree with you all day long.
Speaker:Bring it.
Speaker:You have to earn respect no matter who it is.
Speaker:I often tell my kids, 'cause I heard somebody say this a long time ago.
Speaker:I love you no matter what.
Speaker:There's absolutely nothing that you can't do or that you can do
Speaker:to remove my love from you ever.
Speaker:Doesn't matter what you do, doesn't matter.
Speaker:Pick anything outta the sun.
Speaker:You could become the evilest person in the world.
Speaker:I'll still love you, however, you have to earn my respect.
Speaker:I'm not just gonna respect somebody because they say respect me.
Speaker:No.
Speaker:If you're an idiot and you're doing evil things, I don't respect you.
Speaker:There's a big talk in our world today about how we need to respect each other.
Speaker:That's bs.
Speaker:No, you need to respect somebody that's respectable.
Speaker:So when it comes to my son, when, when I'm having a good moment and I'm not
Speaker:having one of those insecure dad moments.
Speaker:What I try to remind myself is the easiest way to get him to respect me
Speaker:and to learn how to respect others is to be a respectable person and to show him
Speaker:how to be a respectable person and then call him out on it if he's missing it.
Speaker:But it's not to just demand respect.
Speaker:I grew up with somebody whose dad did that all the time and his, his
Speaker:kid, my friend, was kind of a rebel and pretty much was always like, no.
Speaker:And then he beat him.
Speaker:That's how he demanded respect.
Speaker:Guess how well that worked?
Speaker:My friend went to prison for years.
Speaker:I was always had issues.
Speaker:I literally talked to him for the first time, probably six months ago
Speaker:that I haven't talked to in years.
Speaker:It was all the same.
Speaker:Like I'm the victim.
Speaker:Everybody's against me every and And I'm not blaming his father for that.
Speaker:I'm just saying he was set up to have that sort of lifestyle because he was never
Speaker:taught how to be a respectful person.
Speaker:He just wasn't.
Speaker:He was taught that it was a demand and if you don't listen to it, you'll get beat.
Speaker:That seems like an extreme example.
Speaker:'cause most of us don't beat our children.
Speaker:I don't beat mine, but.
Speaker:It's the same thing as just, yeah, I mean, it doesn't, it's not the same
Speaker:thing, like obviously beating a child is different than just telling them
Speaker:to respect you, but it has the same effect for me just to yell at it.
Speaker:It think of this another way.
Speaker:Let's, let's broaden the context since I work with a lot of men in relationships.
Speaker:It's the same way if you try to control your wife's emotions about
Speaker:you or you try to control how a relationship's working, that's the
Speaker:same thing as trying to demand respect.
Speaker:You can't do that.
Speaker:No one can control another person.
Speaker:It's impossible.
Speaker:So stop.
Speaker:So stop trying to do that and focus on what you can control and what can you
Speaker:control your actions, what you're doing.
Speaker:And just, here's the other big thing for a codependent, that's really hard
Speaker:for me for years, man, and I, I think I'm getting pretty decent at it now.
Speaker:And that's just the aspect of just letting go.
Speaker:And just allowing somebody else to have their own opinion about me and
Speaker:not trying to control that narrative.
Speaker:If somebody thinks I'm a jerk and I'm manipulative and everything else, okay,
Speaker:I know I'm not, so that's fine.
Speaker:Go ahead and think that I.
Speaker:You can't, you can't control it.
Speaker:And the one thing we'll jump over to, like, you know, talking about our
Speaker:identity and who I am here in a second, in wrapping this up, I, I wanna reflect on
Speaker:a big E that I missed as a dad as you're talking about, you know, hey, respect me.
Speaker:Is that Josh, our kids are gonna get to being 18 and when they're
Speaker:not under our roof, they get to make their own decisions.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And it's like they're just as likely at that point to say, see you dad later.
Speaker:I don't want any part of you in my life.
Speaker:And so while it's convenient and easy, easier to try and manipulate them and
Speaker:tell them, Hey, you need to respect me and pull this power play when they're younger.
Speaker:That only has a, a, a short runway, and then the rest of their life is
Speaker:left to, how do I feel about my dad?
Speaker:How did he respect me or disrespect me?
Speaker:And the relationship is built on those first 18 years before they're
Speaker:able to, you know, fly on their own.
Speaker:Like you said, like my kids aren't old enough, but I've seen a lot of, uh,
Speaker:friends and people that I know in my life that did that, and it's hard trying
Speaker:to get 'em back once you lose them.
Speaker:Yeah,
Speaker:yeah.
Speaker:Especially.
Speaker:You've got to be in a healthy place to then be able to have the
Speaker:conversation of taking responsibility for the unhealthy things you did.
Speaker:And that is a hard road or a hard place to be in.
Speaker:It's healthy to be able to come back, but it's not a place you want to be in.
Speaker:A much better way is to become healthy before they, you know, leave home.
Speaker:Because at that point then you've gotta hope that they're willing to forgive
Speaker:and, you know, give you that grace.
Speaker:And, uh, it's something I've seen many men not get that opportunity.
Speaker:And, uh, it eats away at you deep, so it's much easier.
Speaker:While it's not an easy thing to, you know, work on becoming healthy and
Speaker:understanding who you are, the unhealthy things you're doing and work, you
Speaker:know, work to improve yourself, that personal growth, that self-development,
Speaker:um, yeah, much, much better time, much best time is before you have children
Speaker:or before you get married, but not all of us are in that ideal position.
Speaker:But, uh, dude.
Speaker:Well, let's, let's jump over to like, um, how you discovered who
Speaker:you are coming from that place where it's like, I've been codependent.
Speaker:This isn't a healthy place.
Speaker:And a lot of times in kind of having those unhealthy patterns, we've forgotten.
Speaker:Who we are or who we thought we were, you know, like those
Speaker:things that are important to us.
Speaker:How did you discover who you are and then really start working that out to
Speaker:say, yes, this is true, this is who I am, and, and, you know, focusing on that.
Speaker:Yeah, it's a good question and I, I probably need to back up
Speaker:even a little bit further before your question in the sense that.
Speaker:I, I've almost come to terms with the fact that I am just a person that needs
Speaker:to learn things the hard way, and I know that there are people that relate
Speaker:to me and maybe people that don't.
Speaker:You know, there's some people that learn better by observing and
Speaker:reading books and everything else.
Speaker:I'm just not one of those people I have to have.
Speaker:I'm trying to not language this on myself to think that this is gonna be
Speaker:me forever, but oftentimes in my life.
Speaker:I've had to have a crisis in order to wake up and for me to go through some
Speaker:sort of spiritual awakening where I wanna become a better version of myself.
Speaker:And, uh, it, it had to be the end of, it was the end of my marriage that really
Speaker:opened my eyes for all of this stuff.
Speaker:Um, during my marriage and everything else, I didn't realize
Speaker:that I was as codependent and had all these other issues that I had
Speaker:until the marriage had ended and.
Speaker:That was a rough, that was a rough way to find out, is to go through a long
Speaker:separation, a very contentious divorce.
Speaker:And, you know, my whole world getting turned upside down.
Speaker:Uh, my business failing, like all the things at the same time.
Speaker:It was a, it was a rough lesson.
Speaker:People have had rougher lessons.
Speaker:I'm not comparing here.
Speaker:It just was rough for me.
Speaker:So.
Speaker:That's one thing is that, you know, if there now I try to have coaches
Speaker:and mentors and everything else to try to eliminate that a little bit.
Speaker:I still have to go through rough things sometimes for me to learn, but I guess
Speaker:that would be my encouragement too, for all you men out there that are
Speaker:like, I'll just figure it out myself.
Speaker:I'll pick myself up.
Speaker:I'm a bootstraps and I'll just, you know, get back up after I fall
Speaker:off the horse and you know, all the nonsense that we tell ourselves.
Speaker:Yeah, that's all fine man.
Speaker:But also get somebody that can help you through that.
Speaker:You have two people right now that you're listening to me and Mike
Speaker:that both coach people through that.
Speaker:And the only reason we are able to do it is 'cause we failed.
Speaker:And then after that we failed.
Speaker:And then after that we failed.
Speaker:And then after that we failed.
Speaker:You are getting a ca common pattern here.
Speaker:We're not smart.
Speaker:Mean my, maybe Mike is, Mike's probably smarter than me, but
Speaker:I don't, I don't know, man.
Speaker:It's not that I have some crazy intelligence.
Speaker:I actually do have a pretty I high iq, a little humble brag right there,
Speaker:but it's not about intelligence.
Speaker:It's not about knowledge.
Speaker:It's not about any of that.
Speaker:It's about the fact that I've just fallen on my face more than most people and
Speaker:I've chosen or been able to, I feel very blessed to be able to learn from those,
Speaker:and I haven't always learned from them.
Speaker:Trust me, because I've fallen on my face.
Speaker:Blamed everybody else falling on my face again, blamed everybody else, falling
Speaker:on my face again, and then started being like, oh, there's a common pattern here.
Speaker:It's me.
Speaker:Maybe I myself now, you know, but it's not always the first time.
Speaker:So there was a lot of those things before I finally got to that point
Speaker:where I authentically and honestly even ask myself that question of who am I?
Speaker:What does my life look like?
Speaker:The most recent iteration of that was actually just a couple years ago where I
Speaker:literally, I, I was about to turn 40 at the time, and I asked myself a very simple
Speaker:question and I said, what is your mission?
Speaker:What is your purpose in life when you're 50, so not a couple months
Speaker:from now when you turn 40, but a decade from now when you turn 50?
Speaker:And I really put a lot of thought into that.
Speaker:I realized that there are several aspects of my life that didn't
Speaker:align with what I said was important to me 10 years from now.
Speaker:So then I had to realize, well then why am I doing them now?
Speaker:Why?
Speaker:Why not change now?
Speaker:Do I wanna wait a decade to change 'em, or should I change 'em now so that I'm
Speaker:better prepared for the next decade?
Speaker:You know, one of my favorite quotes is most people overestimate what they
Speaker:can do in a year and underestimate what they can do in a decade.
Speaker:But how often do you set 10 year goals or 10 year vision, or
Speaker:what are you doing in 10 years?
Speaker:And the thing that was the most helpful for me in going through
Speaker:that process is that now every day.
Speaker:I can think about what that means in 10 years.
Speaker:I can think about what my mission and purpose in life is when I'm
Speaker:50 and I can align my actions, my calendar, and my wallet to make
Speaker:sure that I'm working towards that.
Speaker:And that relieves a lot of pressure 'cause I got 10 years, but it also encourages
Speaker:me to look at it every single day.
Speaker:So I found that to be a really healthy version of.
Speaker:It's gonna spur me to action today, but I'm also not gonna
Speaker:freak out if I don't do it today.
Speaker:That's been helpful for me.
Speaker:I'm not even sure if I answered your question,
Speaker:but No, that that does.
Speaker:And I think the one thing that I really wanna bring out in that
Speaker:Josh, is that it's like that honesty with yourself is something that.
Speaker:Either will benefit you or hinder you.
Speaker:You are looking at 10 years and going, does this align?
Speaker:And being able to say, no.
Speaker:Why am I doing this?
Speaker:Do that honesty with yourself instead of trying to sugarcoat it and take
Speaker:action now to course correct dude, that that is where the power is because
Speaker:if you can't be honest with yourself.
Speaker:There's really nobody that's gonna be honest with you and
Speaker:you can't be honest with them.
Speaker:So you're walking around with a mask and just really cloaking things.
Speaker:And I love the fact that it's like you, you were intentional about being
Speaker:honest and it hurts at times to say like, no, this doesn't work out well.
Speaker:Now I need to quit doing this, or I need to start doing this and taking action.
Speaker:So it's a.
Speaker:I, I, I also lie to myself.
Speaker:I know
Speaker:I'm
Speaker:not the only one.
Speaker:So Yes, you are.
Speaker:Come on, Josh.
Speaker:Well, I know you don't lie to yourself, Mike, I forgot your No, not at all.
Speaker:But here's the other thing along with that though too, is that there has to be
Speaker:accountability from what I've experienced.
Speaker:So in my life, the accountability has been two things.
Speaker:It's number one, hiring coaches that will not BS me, and that will
Speaker:tell me when I'm BSing myself.
Speaker:I've only found that in coaches, 'cause therapists won't do that.
Speaker:'cause that's not their job.
Speaker:Their job is to help you move past things, look at trauma, et cetera.
Speaker:But they're not gonna call you out on your bs.
Speaker:That's just not how they're trained.
Speaker:Most friends and family won't do that either.
Speaker:Even people that have the best intention on the planet.
Speaker:So the only two areas I found it is to be coaches that I hire specifically
Speaker:to do that because now they have a monetary incentive to do so and they
Speaker:also are not gonna put up with my bs.
Speaker:And then the second group of people is being really cautious about
Speaker:those five people in your life that are the most influential to you.
Speaker:And if you want to be the person that goes to the next level of your development.
Speaker:You have to have those people that also wanna move to the
Speaker:next level of their development.
Speaker:And those people also have to be the people that you give permission
Speaker:and you allow to call you out It just doesn't work any other way.
Speaker:If you surround yourself by a bunch of yes men or yes women, it's not gonna work.
Speaker:You're not gonna get where you want to go, and it might feel good.
Speaker:Trust me, I've been there before.
Speaker:I've had to transition a lot of relationships in this
Speaker:last seven years of my life.
Speaker:People that, like I would've considered best friends before because I realize
Speaker:we're on different paths and not, there is no good path, bad path.
Speaker:It's just you're going this way, I'm going this way.
Speaker:I just need to find people that are going this way.
Speaker:However, if you want to get to that next level, are you surrounding
Speaker:yourself with people and are you being influenced by people that
Speaker:also want to get to that next level?
Speaker:'cause I promise you, if you're not, you will never get there.
Speaker:I mean, the reason it's called a coach is sports.
Speaker:That sounded like such a weird way of saying that.
Speaker:Think, think about it like sports.
Speaker:Sports ball.
Speaker:Go sports ball.
Speaker:Think of any sport.
Speaker:What is the purpose of the coach?
Speaker:The coach is there to create a plan and to be able to help the players
Speaker:achieve their dreams, their goals, what they're trying to accomplish.
Speaker:Because I guarantee you, you can have the best coach in the world,
Speaker:and if the players aren't motivated to reach that goal and their dream
Speaker:and that trophy or that ring or whatever, it's never gonna happen.
Speaker:The coach can't force them to do that.
Speaker:And really great players suck at doing that without a coach.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:They just do.
Speaker:'cause egos get in the way.
Speaker:Blinders get in the way.
Speaker:They lie to themselves just like us.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And it's, that's why it's a team effort.
Speaker:That's the reason I as a coach, hire coaches and will never not have a coach.
Speaker:'cause I need somebody in my life just like I want to do that to everybody else.
Speaker:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker:Well, dude, Josh, I so appreciate.
Speaker:Like your honesty, sharing the stories and the insights there to look at, Hey,
Speaker:how do, how do I figure out who I am?
Speaker:How do I be honest with myself and look down the road long term, and then make
Speaker:my actions today match up with that?
Speaker:And then not being either the person that ignores somebody that's, you know, in
Speaker:the water drowning, nor are we jumping in the water to drown with them emotionally.
Speaker:We're instead.
Speaker:Empathetic, but yet strong to who we are.
Speaker:Dude, I really appreciate it and I want to ask how can guys connect with
Speaker:you outside of the podcast here, man.
Speaker:Oh, I appreciate you asking that, Mike.
Speaker:Well, so, uh, there's a couple things I've, we got so passionate talking about
Speaker:things, I forgot to break it up earlier, but, uh, one thing is, first of all, if
Speaker:anybody just wants to get ahold of me.
Speaker:Probably the best way of doing it because I, I still respond to every single
Speaker:message that I receive, assuming it's not spam, but I still respond to every
Speaker:single message I receive on Instagram.
Speaker:So if you want to go to Instagram, I'm Josh the derelict, D-E-R-E-L-I-C-T.
Speaker:If you don't have Instagram, just go to the derelict biz.
Speaker:It's the website.
Speaker:You can get ahold of me there, but the best place is Instagram.
Speaker:Shoot me a message.
Speaker:And I wanted to offer to all your listeners and viewers if they want.
Speaker:I'm really, really passionate about getting help for guys.
Speaker:So if, if there's a guy listening and you're ready and you
Speaker:want to get coaching, great.
Speaker:Reach out to me.
Speaker:Let's start today.
Speaker:If you're not quite ready or you just need some information or,
Speaker:or not even information, I said that wrong if, if you just want.
Speaker:Someone to talk to and just to get a little bit of coaching from and you
Speaker:don't want to commit to anything.
Speaker:Great.
Speaker:Send me a message on Instagram.
Speaker:If you write Fearless Coach and you send me a message, Josh the derelict
Speaker:on Instagram, I'm happy to have a free coaching session with you.
Speaker:It's worth about $500 to take me up on it.
Speaker:Dude.
Speaker:That is super generous and I appreciate it, Josh.
Speaker:I will have all that in the show notes, man, so that somebody's not trying
Speaker:to drive and write at the same time.
Speaker:So I appreciate that.
Speaker:And, and Mike, the reason I'm off, just so you know, I don't offer this
Speaker:on every single podcast I get on.
Speaker:The reason I'm offering it on your podcast is because we talked about this
Speaker:before, you have a passion for men.
Speaker:You have a passion to try to help men become more authentic
Speaker:masculine versions of themselves.
Speaker:I have the same passion, and frankly, there aren't enough of us in the world.
Speaker:Trying to help help.
Speaker:So the more people we can get and the more help we can get, the
Speaker:better of a world we can live in.
Speaker:So I'm fully in support of your mission.
Speaker:I really appreciate you having me on the podcast.
Speaker:I'm, I'm honored and humbled to be here.
Speaker:Thank you.
Speaker:I appreciate it brother.
Speaker:And yes, the stronger we are is man, in a healthy way.
Speaker:I mean, just changes the whole playing field, changes, family dynamics.
Speaker:Um, but the core at that is us being in a healthy place.
Speaker:Um, like we talked about before, it's all masquerades and, and smoke and mirrors
Speaker:if we try and change the relationships without first being healthy ourselves.
Speaker:So dude, I appreciate what you are doing brother, and uh, thank you again.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:Thank you.
