The Real Signs of Low Testosterone in Men with Dr. Stephan Neff

Mike Forrester: 00:00:01

Well, hello and welcome back, my friend.

Mike Forrester: 00:00:04

Uh, this week we are gonna get into something that affects a lot of us as men, low testosterone and kind of our, you know, energy level being low.

Mike Forrester: 00:00:14

Dr. Stephan Neff, is joining me again.

Mike Forrester: 00:00:17

You'll remember a couple years ago he had come on, shared his story, and just the transformation that has gone on, one of those is at the time it was, "Hey, I'm helping people with their mental and emotional health." He has now expanded to where he's in functional medicine, able to help people with their physical health.

Mike Forrester: 00:00:39

And things are tied together, they're intermeshed in ways that, you know, uh, oftentimes we don't know.

Mike Forrester: 00:00:46

But that's where somebody that has, you know, the understanding of all those areas can bring that knowledge, bring that insight.

Mike Forrester: 00:00:54

And so excited to get into talking with Dr. Stephan Neff today, and, uh, super excited for this one.

Mike Forrester: 00:01:01

Stephan, how are you doing today, my friend?

Stephan Neff: 00:01:02

Absolutely fantastic.

Stephan Neff: 00:01:05

Why?

Stephan Neff: 00:01:05

Because I have got the honor and the privilege to be talking to you, because you're an amazing man.

Stephan Neff: 00:01:10

You're putting this platform together for men's health I'm so grateful that you give me the opportunity to talk honestly from a doctor's perspective on this very important- Yeah

Stephan Neff: 00:01:20

topic.

Stephan Neff: 00:01:21

Because here we are as men.

Stephan Neff: 00:01:22

Unfortunately, so many of us, we do have low normal testosterones or even where the testosterone has been dipping lower and lower and lower with all the flow-on effects.

Stephan Neff: 00:01:33

So I'm very grateful that, that you give me a chance to actually give everyone out there a reality check, what this beautiful hormone is, why we have it, its roles, why it sometimes doesn't work so well, and what we can do, because there's so much we can do about it.

Mike Forrester: 00:01:51

And it's one of those things that I think almost like, you know, we're gonna talk about this in another episode, but like ED can be an indicator of other issues, and testosterone is that same kind of thing where it's like it can be that, that warning flag for us, right?

Mike Forrester: 00:02:08

To say like, "Hey, you're still carrying stress in your body that you may have just become acclimated to."

Mike Forrester: 00:02:15

'Cause when you've carried it, it's like, "Okay, I'm now, you know, 30 years old, and the stuff that happened in my childhood, well, I've been really good friends with it my whole life."

Stephan Neff: 00:02:25

Oh, yeah.

Mike Forrester: 00:02:26

That's where it's like I wanted to have kind of like the conversations that we've had offline, I wanted to bring them so other men can hear that it's like, "Oh, this is why this is going on, and these are the, uh, things I can do." Like, we're not, you know… You and I have both preached, we're not victims to what we've experienced in our past, and in this situation as well, we're not a victim-

Stephan Neff: 00:02:52

No

Mike Forrester: 00:02:52

to the issues that we're experiencing physically.

Mike Forrester: 00:02:55

Like, we have the ability to stand up for ourself and figure things out.

Mike Forrester: 00:03:00

Well, let's jump in, Stephan.

Mike Forrester: 00:03:02

So- What, what are some things that can be like those yellow flags that we need to look into that it's like, "Hey, you may have low testosterone"?

Mike Forrester: 00:03:14

And it-- and again, it's only you may, you need to go get it checked, but these could be indicators along the path, right?

Stephan Neff: 00:03:21

Mm.

Stephan Neff: 00:03:23

It's very intriguing because testosterone works on quite a few organ systems, many of which we don't even recognize, and they only come out far too late.

Stephan Neff: 00:03:32

For example, it's so important for our muscle health and our bone health, for our metabolic health, cardiovascular health.

Stephan Neff: 00:03:39

There are a lot of, um, a lot of work that testosterone is doing very silently that you don't know about.

Stephan Neff: 00:03:47

And if it is chronically low, then unfortunately these things get, get larger and larger and more impact.

Stephan Neff: 00:03:56

So our testosterone, to just remind you all, uh, much of it is created in our testicles as men.

Stephan Neff: 00:04:03

Some of it is created in the adrenal glands.

Stephan Neff: 00:04:07

In women equally, there is actually testosterone around, about a 10th of what we men have.

Stephan Neff: 00:04:13

But- Mm … it is as important for them as it is for us.

Stephan Neff: 00:04:17

Now, if testosterone is right, we don't know it.

Stephan Neff: 00:04:22

If testosterone is coming down and is, is maybe counterbalanced by other hormones or other situations, then suddenly the disbalance is there.

Stephan Neff: 00:04:34

And so often it is a mental health challenge that you're facing, uh, the anxiety, the depression, the loss of drive, those kind of things that are actually quite prevalent in those people with lower levels of testosterone.

Stephan Neff: 00:04:51

You might find more difficulties in working out.

Stephan Neff: 00:04:54

You might find more difficulties in, in gaining weight.

Stephan Neff: 00:04:57

You might be losing weight, sarcopenia, that essentially you're sort of wasting away to a certain degree.

Stephan Neff: 00:05:03

Um, but it's certainly the bone health and the cardiovascular health in, in those people on low, uh, testosterone levels that, that really worry us Because you can go into history and, uh, go to eunuchs, so men who have been castrated where the testosterone is completely gone.

Stephan Neff: 00:05:22

And you can see, okay, what's the extreme version of that?

Stephan Neff: 00:05:25

What happens if there's no testosterone?

Stephan Neff: 00:05:27

Or if in the past, unfortunately, um, that was medically done to people out of fear of testosterone causing prostate cancer.

Stephan Neff: 00:05:37

So there was all this, this fear there in the last 50 years, really, a misunderstood, uh, situation.

Stephan Neff: 00:05:44

So testosterone at healthy levels does not do anything to prostate cancer, does not increase your thing.

Stephan Neff: 00:05:51

The, the whole issue with prostate cancer that came actually from one publication where one patient was described, but it was in the 1940s, and then from there on it all took on its, its, its negative impact,

Stephan Neff: 00:06:05

it was really, really hard to when you look back, and it's the same that we see with women with hormone replacement therapy.

Stephan Neff: 00:06:12

So therefore, if we were to look at, at such extreme examples, we can see the dramatic health i- impacts.

Stephan Neff: 00:06:19

But of course, in your daily life, in your busy life, stressful life, you don't recognize that.

Stephan Neff: 00:06:24

You're just trying to make ends meet.

Stephan Neff: 00:06:27

You are having stress.

Stephan Neff: 00:06:29

You're trying to work two jobs.

Stephan Neff: 00:06:31

At home, things are not right, et cetera.

Stephan Neff: 00:06:34

And so many things contribute to that.

Stephan Neff: 00:06:38

So we probably-- we need to, to go a little bit back into biology if, if I may, because when we talk about testosterone, testosterone being low We need to figure out actually testosterone fluctuates quite a bit throughout the day.

Stephan Neff: 00:06:53

So first of all, if you ever, ever to measure your testosterone, then if at all, do it always fasting in the morning, always at the same time.

Stephan Neff: 00:07:03

And in New Zealand, for example, we don't even consider you for anything with testosterone replacement therapy if you have not had two independent levels taken at the same time that both are clearly low.

Stephan Neff: 00:07:15

So it's quite important.

Stephan Neff: 00:07:17

Now, testosterone in its own right, the active form is the free form that floats around, but in the blood, actually at least 50% is bound to, uh, sexual hormone binding globulin.

Stephan Neff: 00:07:29

And that's basically like the, the, uh, the testosterone sitting inside of a bus and being driven around.

Stephan Neff: 00:07:35

It can't do anything, it just sits in the bus.

Stephan Neff: 00:07:37

So-- and your total testosterone, uh, is measuring that part as well.

Stephan Neff: 00:07:42

So that's the uninteresting part.

Stephan Neff: 00:07:44

Then about 45%, uh, of the testosterone is, uh, bound to albumin.

Stephan Neff: 00:07:49

Uh, it's a bit more now sitting on a motorbike.

Stephan Neff: 00:07:52

It can actually reach out and touch something, but it's still sitting on something there.

Stephan Neff: 00:07:56

So it's really only about two, 3% of the, the, the testosterone being really actively as a free form and being able to go to the testosterone receptors, the androgen receptors, and taking action.

Stephan Neff: 00:08:08

So it's important that we recognize that.

Stephan Neff: 00:08:11

When you know that, you can then ask the questions, well, what are factors that increasing that sex hormone binding globulin?

Stephan Neff: 00:08:18

Because if there's more of that, more testosterone will, will, will be bound.

Stephan Neff: 00:08:22

So whilst two men have exactly the same testosterone levels in the blood, if you then break it down and say, "Well, how much is sex hormone, uh, uh, binding globulin is there?"

Stephan Neff: 00:08:32

If one has much, much more than the other, then the guy who has more of that, that bus carrier will have less free testosterone, might have with the same levels of testosterone, might have far more symptoms.

Stephan Neff: 00:08:44

So you see, it's already not as straightforward there.

Stephan Neff: 00:08:47

Um, it's good to know that just one level of testosterone means sweet nothing.

Mike Forrester: 00:08:53

When we end up getting, like, our testosterone checked, it's not just that we're looking at our testosterone.

Mike Forrester: 00:09:00

We need to look at the SHBG or sex- Correct … uh, hormone-binding globulin, right?

Stephan Neff: 00:09:05

Correct.

Stephan Neff: 00:09:06

Correct.

Mike Forrester: 00:09:06

So if we just look at the test-testosterone, we're only getting part of the picture- Yeah

Mike Forrester: 00:09:11

and we could have a problem when it's like, "No, you're fine."

Stephan Neff: 00:09:14

Uh, exactly.

Stephan Neff: 00:09:14

" Mike Forrester: There's no issue

Stephan Neff: 00:09:15

here."

Mike Forrester: 00:09:16

Exactly.

Stephan Neff: 00:09:16

And the other thing, a good doctor will then say, "Okay, you've got low testosterone.

Stephan Neff: 00:09:20

Let's have a little bit more of an, of a look under the hood." Because ultimately- Mm … these hormones are driven by our brain, and we have got their hormones that are being released to tell the testicles, "Come on, give us more testosterone."

Stephan Neff: 00:09:35

And we wanna see what these trigger hormones, what are they like?

Stephan Neff: 00:09:40

LH, FSH, these are the two hormones that we look at, which are telling the testicles and the adrenal glands what to do.

Stephan Neff: 00:09:47

'Cause that's where we want to distinguish, hang on, why are you low?

Stephan Neff: 00:09:51

Yes, of course, with our current lifestyle that is incredibly toxic to testosterone, yes, that's the very likely culprit.

Stephan Neff: 00:09:58

But we do not wanna forget that there might actually be things that are not so pretty, uh, cancers or conditions in the brain that actually stop the brain from telling the testicles, "Come on, go out there. Give us a bit of testosterone." So a good doctor will work you up to actually check that there is not something nasty there.

Stephan Neff: 00:10:18

So you just saying, "I've got low testosterone. Give me something," well, no, that's not the story, man.

Stephan Neff: 00:10:24

So we wanna-

Mike Forrester: 00:10:25

I think that's being done quite a bit, though.

Mike Forrester: 00:10:27

I mean, that's, that's kind of the problem, right?

Mike Forrester: 00:10:29

If we're not looking at just, like, the testosterone level, so free and total, I think you said.

Stephan Neff: 00:10:35

Yeah.

Mike Forrester: 00:10:36

Our SHBG- Yeah … the luteinizing hormone or LH- That's right … and then FSH.

Stephan Neff: 00:10:41

That's--

Mike Forrester: 00:10:41

yeah.

Mike Forrester: 00:10:41

So we need a much larger picture- Absolutely If SHBG is consuming and holding on like, "Hey, you're on the bus, you can't get off the bus."

Stephan Neff: 00:10:54

Exactly.

Mike Forrester: 00:10:54

Right?

Stephan Neff: 00:10:54

Exactly.

Stephan Neff: 00:10:55

So these are all the- Um … kind of things that are happening in the system without us knowing.

Stephan Neff: 00:10:59

And it's unfortunately- Okay … that is not so commonly known.

Stephan Neff: 00:11:03

A good GP, a good family physician, endocrinologist, they will do that.

Stephan Neff: 00:11:07

But, uh, so often people are dabbling a little bit, um, just have a look, and then they assume.

Stephan Neff: 00:11:13

A lot of assumptions there.

Stephan Neff: 00:11:15

"Oh no, it's all your stress. It's all this, it's all that."

Stephan Neff: 00:11:18

No, we wanna, we wanna figure out, okay, what's really going on there.

Stephan Neff: 00:11:21

And once we have done that, that is-- then that gives us a really good idea where we are at with truly with your physiology or maybe pathophysiology.

Stephan Neff: 00:11:31

Physiology is when things are going well, and pathophysiology is when sort of disease is being created or, uh, dysfunction is being created.

Stephan Neff: 00:11:40

So that is one thing.

Stephan Neff: 00:11:42

Then, so we get the blood tests, and now we're gonna also look at the other part of the story.

Stephan Neff: 00:11:48

What are your symptoms?

Stephan Neff: 00:11:49

We already touched upon them.

Stephan Neff: 00:11:51

It's typically the fatigue, the reduced libido, the, the kind of vague brain fog kind of things that often play together.

Stephan Neff: 00:12:02

So there are a number of screening questionnaires or screening tools that are being utilized, but these tools, they are all actually very, very vague because the symptoms of low testosterone are so vague.

Stephan Neff: 00:12:15

So if you were to compare that, let's say, with, in a woman with menopause, that would be a huge overlap.

Stephan Neff: 00:12:20

If I compare that with low thyroid hormones, if I were to compare that with mycotoxins, mold disease, huge overlap.

Stephan Neff: 00:12:27

They're all sort of, you know, if, uh, the-- it's very hard from a symptom cluster to say, "Yeah, that's testosterone."

Stephan Neff: 00:12:36

And that's the tricky bit.

Stephan Neff: 00:12:37

So to have someone who says, "I've got a one lab value that's low, give me testosterone," well, that's stupid.

Stephan Neff: 00:12:44

Um- Yeah … if you say, "If I've got one person who has got all these kind of symptoms, that must be testosterone," well, that's stupid as well.

Stephan Neff: 00:12:53

Let's combine it all, then we are can, then we can talk about it.

Stephan Neff: 00:12:57

Because we've got increasingly population studies that point us towards a better cardiovascular health, probably it being a contributor to diabetes, um, to maybe fatty liver disease, to other things.

Stephan Neff: 00:13:11

So it's quite important that we look at that.

Stephan Neff: 00:13:14

Often enough- Yeah … these people, these men who are coming to me into my clinic, they want a quick fix.

Stephan Neff: 00:13:21

I had indeed, just before Christmas, I had a man coming to me, a engineer.

Stephan Neff: 00:13:26

He came in on his phone Uh, uh, rushed.

Stephan Neff: 00:13:30

He was in, in stress.

Stephan Neff: 00:13:32

He was probably in distress.

Stephan Neff: 00:13:33

Things were not right with his wife.

Stephan Neff: 00:13:35

Um, she was drinking and they had trouble in their marriage.

Stephan Neff: 00:13:38

He had trouble with his son.

Stephan Neff: 00:13:40

He had trouble in his business.

Stephan Neff: 00:13:41

He was so focused on absolutely everything, and he knew he was tired but wired.

Stephan Neff: 00:13:49

He knew he was not right, and he had done some, one testosterone level, which was low normal from memory.

Stephan Neff: 00:13:56

And, uh, there's a lot to be said that lab values in their own right, um, they distinguish clear disease from not disease.

Stephan Neff: 00:14:07

Labs don't distinguish optimal wellbeing versus, uh, could do better kind of thing.

Stephan Neff: 00:14:13

So let's be clear about that.

Stephan Neff: 00:14:14

When they say, uh, when I say he was low normal, that does not mean to say that this is ideal for you in life.

Stephan Neff: 00:14:21

Probably far, far higher, and many voices nowadays of, of researchers are speaking out about that and are pushing the levels up of what is acceptable and where we should be as, as men in our lab values.

Stephan Neff: 00:14:35

So that's important.

Stephan Neff: 00:14:36

But here was this man, low, low value, I want testosterone.

Stephan Neff: 00:14:40

He wanted a quick fix.

Stephan Neff: 00:14:42

Yeah.

Stephan Neff: 00:14:42

When I started, well, actually, let's have a… let's, let's talk.

Stephan Neff: 00:14:46

He got quite annoyed with me.

Stephan Neff: 00:14:48

So- Hmm … because obviously he wanted a quick fix, and unfortunately that doesn't work

Mike Forrester: 00:14:56

there's lots of underlying things that can contribute it to it.

Mike Forrester: 00:15:00

And the one thing that I think that's really interesting in just what you've said as far as these are symptoms I think dispels the, the belief that we, we as men so often have is, uh, testosterone is just a sex, you know, sex-related.

Mike Forrester: 00:15:18

It's far-reaching beyond that in just what you've shared here.

Mike Forrester: 00:15:23

So, you know, if, if it's got this reach into our life and our function, what is it that, that we can do that would hurt our levels?

Mike Forrester: 00:15:34

How-

Stephan Neff: 00:15:35

Mm.

Mike Forrester: 00:15:35

How are we lowering our levels unknowingly?

Stephan Neff: 00:15:39

Oh, beautiful.

Stephan Neff: 00:15:40

Beautiful.

Stephan Neff: 00:15:41

Oh, where to start?

Stephan Neff: 00:15:42

Okay, now you got me going.

Stephan Neff: 00:15:45

I think the biggest thing is our sleep.

Stephan Neff: 00:15:48

I can create- Mm … a low testosterone scenario simply by not letting you sleep.

Stephan Neff: 00:15:54

If we now-- if I now put you for a week down to five hours of sleep a night of maybe even broken quality, guess what happens?

Stephan Neff: 00:16:03

Your testosterone level drops by about fifteen, twenty percent.

Stephan Neff: 00:16:07

But just like that.

Stephan Neff: 00:16:08

So sleep is one very powerful thing.

Stephan Neff: 00:16:11

Stress and our life that is so busy out there, my goodness.

Stephan Neff: 00:16:17

Now, there is-- th- what I'm telling you now is maybe a little bit simplified, but it's actually pretty much hitting, hitting it right.

Stephan Neff: 00:16:24

There is something we call androgen steal.

Stephan Neff: 00:16:27

So if you imagine all the hormones playing nicely together, they're being produced and the, the adrenal glands and the testicles, they produce precursors that then change, that can be altered.

Stephan Neff: 00:16:41

So suddenly you have that from one compound.

Stephan Neff: 00:16:44

It becomes a compound that's more sexually active, like estrogen or progesterone, uh, in the girls.

Stephan Neff: 00:16:50

Mm-hmm.

Stephan Neff: 00:16:50

And then it can actually switch over to androgens.

Stephan Neff: 00:16:53

It can switch over to cortisol, which is not a stress hormone, et cetera.

Stephan Neff: 00:16:57

When we say cortisol steal or androgen steal, it refers to the fact that your body is needing heaps amounts of cortisol, and ultimately there's not enough of the precursors there because your nutrition is not so good.

Stephan Neff: 00:17:11

You're not bringing in the, the precursors of those hormones.

Stephan Neff: 00:17:14

So y- the body says, "Okay, I've got adapt to change, overcome with what I've got." So we-- okay, what don't we need?

Stephan Neff: 00:17:21

Androgen?

Stephan Neff: 00:17:22

Well, you don't need to do babies right now.

Stephan Neff: 00:17:24

Let's take some of the, the testosterone and flip it over into cortisol.

Stephan Neff: 00:17:29

So that's what we call simplified cortisol steal.

Stephan Neff: 00:17:32

If you are living in a hugely stressful environment, then this is something that happens.

Stephan Neff: 00:17:38

So we are actually-- we are altering not only the balance between free testosterone and sexual hormone, uh, by, uh, binding globulin, SHBG, but we also change the overall, actually, you don't need those androgens, those testosterones and similar drugs or similar hormones.

Stephan Neff: 00:17:56

Let's bring them across to the survival hormones that you clearly need more.

Stephan Neff: 00:18:01

So sleep, stress hugely so.

Stephan Neff: 00:18:05

Unfortunately, we have also got, um, the counterbalance to the testosterone is estrogen Now you're saying, "Come on, I, I'm a man. What do, what do I need to know about estrogen?" Well, unfortunately, a lot.

Stephan Neff: 00:18:20

Because many of the toxins that are in our food, the microplastics, and some of the mycotoxins, the mold toxins, some, some of the other toxins that are floating around out there, the forever chemicals, they act as xenoestrogens.

Stephan Neff: 00:18:35

So they are not estrogens that are built in the body, but they work, they act on the receptors as estrogens.

Stephan Neff: 00:18:41

So certainly by you actually heating your leftovers in a plastic dish, you are actually, thank you very much, getting quite a few xenoestrogens in there, and you're counterbalancing your, uh, testosterone.

Stephan Neff: 00:18:55

So by us living in this toxic world, we are actually doing a lot of harm.

Stephan Neff: 00:19:02

So these are just three simple examples there where we can actually look at our, our environment and immediately make changes.

Stephan Neff: 00:19:13

The next thing is our lack of activity.

Stephan Neff: 00:19:15

Sedentary lifestyle is unfortunately-- I mean, the, the daily step count has dropped down to about 3,500 in the United States as average.

Stephan Neff: 00:19:23

Now, I mean, there is somewhere these 10,000 steps that everyone is sort of harking on about.

Stephan Neff: 00:19:31

Is that really so important?

Stephan Neff: 00:19:34

And the short answer is yes, it is, uh, in the absence of better measures.

Stephan Neff: 00:19:40

Now, you could of course argue that resistance training, strength training is far more important than your aerobic steps.

Stephan Neff: 00:19:48

But if you do nothing else and add in some steps, now that's, that's so much better than your sedentary lifestyle with 3,000 steps.

Stephan Neff: 00:19:56

So it's the, the physical exercise, the muscle building, us actually pushing ourselves, giving us those microtraumas, those, those pushing out there, the, the good stress.

Stephan Neff: 00:20:08

So if we were to say what would be the low-hanging fruit for testosterone or for men's health really, then I've already nailed it pretty much there.

Stephan Neff: 00:20:19

We have got, uh, trying to live a cleaner lifestyle where you sleep better, where you put in daily 30 minutes of exercise.

Stephan Neff: 00:20:27

Um, and when I say exercise or at least activity and those kind of things, that is sort of the, the baseline.

Stephan Neff: 00:20:34

The people always try to have the quick fix.

Stephan Neff: 00:20:37

Oh, there is this new herb somewhere that, uh, lifts my testosterone up.

Stephan Neff: 00:20:43

Good luck.

Stephan Neff: 00:20:44

If you wash that herb down with five pints of beer every night, you know what?

Stephan Neff: 00:20:50

Your testosterone will not go very much up, okay?

Stephan Neff: 00:20:54

Maybe you forget the herb and maybe we, we cut back on the, on the grog, on the drink.

Stephan Neff: 00:20:59

How would that be?

Stephan Neff: 00:21:01

And I think that would be something that we should always remember.

Stephan Neff: 00:21:04

We have got so much more power.

Stephan Neff: 00:21:06

We see ourselves as the victims of other things when in reality we are mistreating our body in ways, oh my goodness Let's go to our nutrition.

Stephan Neff: 00:21:17

We haven't even talked about that.

Stephan Neff: 00:21:19

Nutrition is such an important bed.

Stephan Neff: 00:21:21

'Cause I, I hinted on it a bit because you need the precursors of actually the, the, the precursors that create the compounds, the hormones, arocto- uh, arachidonic acid as an example.

Stephan Neff: 00:21:35

So these are things that are in nuts, that are in seeds.

Stephan Neff: 00:21:37

Uh, so it's nice if you actually have got a good nutrition that brings in what is important.

Stephan Neff: 00:21:45

You can't be a happy man if you don't have an appropriate amount of protein, magnesium, vitamin D, zinc, selenium, uh, some omega-3 fatty acids.

Stephan Neff: 00:21:56

Without those things, yeah, good luck of you at building up some serotonin.

Stephan Neff: 00:22:00

So we need to actually pay attention to our nutrition towards a Mediterranean food plan, if you w- want it to be specific, and maybe thrown in some intermittent fasting or longer fasting stints.

Mike Forrester: 00:22:16

Mm.

Stephan Neff: 00:22:16

So here you are by doing this mixture of Mediterranean food plan, which is typically higher in protein, much lower in-

Mike Forrester: 00:22:26

Mm-hmm

Stephan Neff: 00:22:26

carbohydrates, where we don't use ultra-processed foods.

Stephan Neff: 00:22:30

'Cause the ultra-processing, that completely strips many foods, uh, from what they are really designed to do to nourish you, to feed life.

Stephan Neff: 00:22:41

And by us turning them into Tim Tams, uh, you know, the same amount of fat, uh, carbohydrate, and protein in there is having a very different impact than exactly the same grams of fat, protein, and carbohydrate that you come, that you get maybe from a salad or from, uh, whatever else you create that is not ultra-processed.

Stephan Neff: 00:23:05

So it's not calorie in, calorie out.

Stephan Neff: 00:23:08

It is us using the right combination of things, increasing your protein intake.

Stephan Neff: 00:23:13

I think that's important for us men.

Stephan Neff: 00:23:15

And then stress our bodies in all the right ways by you actually going to the gym or using exercise, by you going for walks.

Stephan Neff: 00:23:24

Go out there.

Stephan Neff: 00:23:25

And just you changing this life, I can, within a month, your testosterone levels will be 30, 40% higher.

Stephan Neff: 00:23:33

It's as simple as that.

Mike Forrester: 00:23:37

Well, and I think, I think so many, like my path guys that I'm coaching, it's like even if you're not having children, you're not married, it's like, man, within your work there can be those late hours-

Stephan Neff: 00:23:52

Oh

Stephan Neff: 00:23:52

… Mike Forrester: you know, the, the, the time of sitting at your desk, the stress that goes with it, and then you're looking at the weekend going, "Okay, I- I'm just done, Stephan.

Stephan Neff: 00:24:02

I need to relax," right?

Stephan Neff: 00:24:05

And then you're sitting again, sedentary, maybe playing video games- Yeah … watching TV, whatever the case may be.

Stephan Neff: 00:24:12

If you, if you are a husband, then it's like you've got relationship challenges.

Stephan Neff: 00:24:17

Absolutely.

Stephan Neff: 00:24:18

That adds on there.

Stephan Neff: 00:24:19

You get to being a father, there's definitely more stress and, and if you're a new dad, there's a lot less sleep.

Stephan Neff: 00:24:27

Mm-hmm.

Mike Forrester: 00:24:27

So our stage in life can have a lot to do with it,

Stephan Neff: 00:24:32

hundred percent.

Stephan Neff: 00:24:33

I could not agree more.

Mike Forrester: 00:24:34

Yeah.

Stephan Neff: 00:24:34

But again, you're putting- Yeah … yourself a little bit into this victim role.

Stephan Neff: 00:24:39

You're… and not victim- Right … victim is maybe the wrong place, this passive role, and where we think, "Oh my God, all these things are so important."

Stephan Neff: 00:24:47

Now, if you say, "Well, I actually have that trouble in my marriage," wouldn't it be nice to actually spend some time with your wife, just taking her for 20 minutes out of a stressful situation and say, "Look, 20 minutes is really not the work.

Stephan Neff: 00:25:03

Why don't we just go f- a walk around the block?" Provided it's safe to do so.

Stephan Neff: 00:25:07

But suddenly, if you begin to do that maybe three times a week, that you say, "Well, actually, I've got stress with my wife, and we made now a conscious decision to spend 20 minutes together, which we actually do some exercise and go out there and do something." And when I say exercise, don't hit the gym.

Stephan Neff: 00:25:26

That's not what I'm saying.

Stephan Neff: 00:25:27

That's you actually doing-- going for a walk, a walk in, in a nice area.

Stephan Neff: 00:25:32

That would be a beautiful thing, and suddenly you might actually find, wow, we can talk again.

Stephan Neff: 00:25:38

And maybe it is the breakthrough.

Stephan Neff: 00:25:40

Maybe it's the, the sign that she wanted to see that you're still, that you still care 'cause you might have been so, so, so focused on providing That her needs were not met.

Mike Forrester: 00:25:53

Mm-hmm.

Stephan Neff: 00:25:54

And suddenly you have got-- you're actually reducing the amount of stress that comes into your life on the one hand, because you're actually improving the relationship with your partner.

Stephan Neff: 00:26:04

On the other hand, you're actually changing your metabolic function because you do no longer have such glucose spikes that mess around your metabolism and with your brain by you actually moving more and going after food out there.

Stephan Neff: 00:26:19

And you have taken action, so you're actually literally are taking back control.

Stephan Neff: 00:26:25

You're showing leadership in what you're doing.

Stephan Neff: 00:26:28

You're living on purpose, the fourth thing, with intention.

Stephan Neff: 00:26:32

These are all… You've, you've-- What have you done?

Stephan Neff: 00:26:35

You've gone for a walk.

Stephan Neff: 00:26:36

But look what you have really done.

Stephan Neff: 00:26:38

How amazing is that?

Stephan Neff: 00:26:40

And maybe then spend some time with her in the kitchen and say, "Wow, okay, it would be so easy to just open yet another ready frozen meal." Or, "You know what?

Stephan Neff: 00:26:50

Maybe Sunday, should we do some-- shall we get some, some cabbage, carrots, onions, see what is in the pro-- in the grocery aisle and, and eat, eat-- get something with every color, every single color that we've got there.

Stephan Neff: 00:27:03

And that means that we also get all the fiber that we need, because I heard fiber is so good for the gut." Again, if we were talking about estrogen that we don't like as men, well, how would it be if we eat a bit more fiber that eats up the estrogen that gets sequestered into the gut, eh?

Stephan Neff: 00:27:18

And suddenly you poo it out, and it doesn't get reabsorbed.

Stephan Neff: 00:27:21

Huh, wouldn't it be something?

Stephan Neff: 00:27:23

And what about these toxins that we've been talking about?

Stephan Neff: 00:27:25

Oh, oh, yeah, they're binding to fiber in the gut.

Stephan Neff: 00:27:28

How funny that is.

Stephan Neff: 00:27:29

Hmm.

Stephan Neff: 00:27:29

You are in control.

Stephan Neff: 00:27:31

You don't know it yet, but you are in control, and that is where, where maybe a good coach comes in or where if, you know, a functional medicine doctor who can not just look at testosterone but all the hormones and look at wider where do these hormones fit in into your energy pathways.

Stephan Neff: 00:27:48

Where do those energy pathways fit in, let's say, into the diseases that you have already developed?

Stephan Neff: 00:27:55

'Cause you might have already got pre-diabetes or diabetes.

Stephan Neff: 00:27:58

Well, that will negatively impact your testosterone There might be times that we focus on something completely different.

Stephan Neff: 00:28:07

Like for example, your weight management.

Stephan Neff: 00:28:10

By us addressing your weight and you getting fitter and incidentally, what would you have to do?

Stephan Neff: 00:28:16

Well, the fasting, the Mediterranean food plan, the strength exercises.

Stephan Neff: 00:28:20

Funny that is, that they all sort of seem to be quite therapeutic for multiple things that happen in you.

Stephan Neff: 00:28:26

Um, so you know, that might be the ways to go.

Stephan Neff: 00:28:30

So when we talk testosterone, we talk resistance training, we talk strength training.

Stephan Neff: 00:28:36

There's some, some aerobic training there as well.

Stephan Neff: 00:28:39

But I think, uh, the, the power lies in you gaining back power.

Stephan Neff: 00:28:46

And if we come full circle- Mm-hmm

Stephan Neff: 00:28:47

if we think s- testosterone is a sex hormone, well, we talk sex, therefore we talk you being able to have fun and satisfy your partner in the bedroom.

Stephan Neff: 00:29:00

That with no libido in both of you, well, I won't… That will be not happening very soon.

Stephan Neff: 00:29:07

But equally, let's say you actually garner somewhere some, some mental strength and you say, "Okay, let's do it.

Stephan Neff: 00:29:15

This is date night.

Stephan Neff: 00:29:16

Once a year we will do it." Um, the problem is if your body can't restrain, withstand that, if you cannot hold a plank for a minute, um, or do maybe 10 push-ups, then I don't know.

Stephan Neff: 00:29:30

It will not be the greatest thing.

Stephan Neff: 00:29:32

So you're setting yourself up to fail.

Stephan Neff: 00:29:34

Whilst on the flip side, if you're starting to use your body in more, in a more beautiful way, which is getting stronger, more subtle, more flexible, where you are maybe more proud of it, can you imagine that that in its own right has got a positive effect also on your hormones, on testosterone?

Stephan Neff: 00:29:52

So you see this all, it's a beautiful, intricate web that we can have the power to pull on here, stretch a bit there, and suddenly you see amazing changes, and that's wonderful.

Mike Forrester: 00:30:04

Mm-hmm.

Mike Forrester: 00:30:06

Well, I wanted to ask one more question-

Stephan Neff: 00:30:09

Absolutely

Stephan Neff: 00:30:09

… Mike Forrester: before we wrap up here.

Stephan Neff: 00:30:11

So you had talked about, like, the nutrients, and in my mind, I'm kinda seeing like, hey, it's, it's almost like we're driving a car down the road without, you know, steering or maybe all four tires.

Stephan Neff: 00:30:26

If we go to the doctor or we go to you and we're like, um, "Hey, there is something off," um, as far as along the way, we wanna look at things more of what nutrients am I missing.

Stephan Neff: 00:30:39

Mm-hmm.

Stephan Neff: 00:30:39

What are some things that we can test?

Stephan Neff: 00:30:42

I'm assuming you talked about zinc and- Mm-hmm … um, vitamin D. Mm-hmm.

Stephan Neff: 00:30:47

I'm assuming maybe DHEA and, and, uh-

Stephan Neff: 00:30:51

Mm-hmm

Mike Forrester: 00:30:51

like EPA, like our, our, our fats.

Mike Forrester: 00:30:54

Is there-- is that what we should be looking at or is there other stuff as well to-

Stephan Neff: 00:30:58

Mm-hmm

Stephan Neff: 00:30:58

… Mike Forrester: to make sure that we have the building blocks- Right … for our body to make testosterone?

Stephan Neff: 00:31:04

That depends upon where are you in the world and how well are you off financially.

Stephan Neff: 00:31:10

We can do all kind of the most beautiful, amazing tests, and we can collect data until the cows come home.

Stephan Neff: 00:31:16

How much will that change?

Stephan Neff: 00:31:19

Um, I'll give you an example.

Stephan Neff: 00:31:20

So there is a most beautiful, uh, Dutch test, uh, a dried urine test for hormones, and I use that quite a bit, probably more so in women than in men, but it gives us all the, the hormones, uh, from the cortisols or androgens, uh, s- the estrogens, progesterone.

Stephan Neff: 00:31:40

But more importantly, the metabolites, the, the breakdown products, because sometimes often they are more important than others.

Stephan Neff: 00:31:46

So if I wanted to get a really comprehensive look at that, hmm, okay, that would be a really worthwhile thing to do.

Stephan Neff: 00:31:52

So I think there are many other tests that a good doctor will do that are independent of the kind of functional world.

Stephan Neff: 00:32:00

'Cause if you look at funding from insurance companies, et cetera, there are certain blood tests that are funded pretty much throughout the world, and we would look at your full blood count or complete blood count.

Stephan Neff: 00:32:10

Uh, we would look at liver function, kidney function, bone marrow function your lipids, um, certain cardiovascular parameters.

Stephan Neff: 00:32:19

These are all things that are freely, uh, available and a good doctor will do for you.

Stephan Neff: 00:32:24

That will give us a pretty much a good, uh, warrant of fitness as far as disease is concerned.

Stephan Neff: 00:32:29

So that's the, the testing that everyone should have anyhow as part of you having a functioning relationship with your GP.

Stephan Neff: 00:32:36

In addition to that, we then can say, "Okay, let's, let's look at your story. Who are you? How are you living?" And if we are worried about the stress and maybe trauma and all those things, maybe this kind of hormone testing might be really good.

Stephan Neff: 00:32:51

Another test we do is an organic acid test, and that's pretty much again, that's like a good warrant of fitness from a functional medicine perspective.

Stephan Neff: 00:32:59

So again, it's a, it's a, the breakdown products that go out in the urine.

Stephan Neff: 00:33:03

We-- from them we can deduct a lot about the gut health, about the contrary health, et cetera.

Stephan Neff: 00:33:07

So there are certain testing there that makes sense.

Stephan Neff: 00:33:10

And in such a case like this, let's say a man who clearly feels burnt out and who's really struggling in life, then I think this combination of these three tests would be giving us a hell of a lot of information.

Stephan Neff: 00:33:24

But there might be other tests in addition to that where we have to say, "Well, actually, you have been living in a house or you have been-- you are renovating houses for a living, and you go into these mold disease." I mean, the houses are awful, and you're breathing that stuff in and out without any, uh, protective equipment.

Stephan Neff: 00:33:43

If I was to measure mycotoxins or in another person, maybe an engineer, I might measure the, the lead and the heavy metals.

Stephan Neff: 00:33:52

These might be huge contributors to all of that.

Stephan Neff: 00:33:55

So testing depends upon who you are and how much money you have available to a certain degree, because all these, these tests cost extra money.

Stephan Neff: 00:34:03

Vitamin D, virtually everyone is low, so I think everyone should have at least something like four thousand units of vitamin D, pretty much with very few exceptions.

Stephan Neff: 00:34:15

Four thousand, uh, units a day is the maximum limit that we have here in New Zealand.

Stephan Neff: 00:34:20

Um, but then again, if you know that maybe your vitamin D receptors are low because you've done some genetic testing, then in my case, I've been, you know, they run at thirty percent.

Stephan Neff: 00:34:30

I need higher doses.

Stephan Neff: 00:34:31

But you don't know un-unless you do.

Stephan Neff: 00:34:33

But, you know, in, in a population, they say, "Okay, vitamin D, we don't even test for it," um, or at least we don't fund it.

Stephan Neff: 00:34:42

Uh, you just give some.

Stephan Neff: 00:34:43

If you think you're low, take some.

Stephan Neff: 00:34:45

If you, so vitamin D, um, yeah, get some blood, uh, some blood levels done.

Stephan Neff: 00:34:50

You might be surprised how low it is, so it might give you a new incentive to look at nutrition in a different way.

Stephan Neff: 00:34:55

I think that's really good.

Stephan Neff: 00:34:57

If you were asking, um, the omega-3 fatty acids, there are certain, uh- Mm-hmm … certain ratios that we can look at.

Stephan Neff: 00:35:04

Uh, they're quite pretty.

Stephan Neff: 00:35:05

Um, and again, this is a data point.

Stephan Neff: 00:35:08

If you wanted, if I wanted to convince someone to really change their nutrition, I might order that, but that's $200, $300 for something where I say, "Anyhow, you wanna change your nutrition.

Stephan Neff: 00:35:19

Do you really think these- Yeah, right … Sizzlers, these Sizzlers and the burger that you're eating every day has anything… I mean, your cardboard around the packaging has more nutrition than the i- the stuff you put in your mouth." Okay?

Stephan Neff: 00:35:31

So, so yes, I can- So

Mike Forrester: 00:35:33

order the burger, eat, eat the wrapper.

Stephan Neff: 00:35:35

Yeah, exactly.

Stephan Neff: 00:35:37

That's what I would do.

Stephan Neff: 00:35:37

Exactly.

Stephan Neff: 00:35:37

That's what I'm saying.

Stephan Neff: 00:35:38

So therefore, I can do a lot of tests, but are they really giving us much information or d- do they change your management plan?

Stephan Neff: 00:35:46

Mm. In many cases, no.

Stephan Neff: 00:35:48

Um, so that's fair to say.

Stephan Neff: 00:35:50

Magnesium, for example, we, we know that virtually everyone needs more.

Stephan Neff: 00:35:54

Magnesium is a beautiful compound involved in at least 300 enzymatic, uh, processes within your body, and we are all running low, for crying out loud.

Stephan Neff: 00:36:04

And the only time when we actually remember it when we get us some cramps, and then we think, "Oh, I might be a bit low in my electrolytes," and, and in this case, magnesium.

Stephan Neff: 00:36:13

When in reality you should have it more.

Stephan Neff: 00:36:15

And the problem is you can get a magnesium level.

Stephan Neff: 00:36:17

It means sweet nothing.

Stephan Neff: 00:36:18

There's only 1% of magnesium is in blood.

Stephan Neff: 00:36:22

All the rest is in the cells, so you can't measure that really.

Stephan Neff: 00:36:25

So a lot of people do testing that really either doesn't give you anything or is not reflective of the true status within you.

Stephan Neff: 00:36:32

Let's say, okay, we have identified testosterone being low in you as a root cause, as one of the drivers of you not being, not being able to live to your fullest.

Stephan Neff: 00:36:43

So what does it mean for you to live to the fullest?

Stephan Neff: 00:36:48

Let's actually take five data points there in your function.

Stephan Neff: 00:36:51

You can't sleep, okay, you're, you're completely ratty, and you can't focus.

Stephan Neff: 00:36:56

Mental fog.

Stephan Neff: 00:36:57

Rank them and give them zero to 10 and see where are we at.

Stephan Neff: 00:37:02

Okay, brain fog, eight out of 10.

Stephan Neff: 00:37:04

Cool.

Stephan Neff: 00:37:05

So let's start cleaning up your diet.

Stephan Neff: 00:37:07

Let's do this.

Stephan Neff: 00:37:08

Let's do that.

Stephan Neff: 00:37:09

In a month's time, where are you at?

Stephan Neff: 00:37:11

Okay, now we add in tongkat ali.

Stephan Neff: 00:37:14

Now we add in other things that are moving the dial a bit in the hormone space a bit.

Stephan Neff: 00:37:20

There are some, some things that can be of help to us.

Stephan Neff: 00:37:23

Boron.

Stephan Neff: 00:37:24

Uh, there are little things in addition to what we have mentioned, um, where we can shift things around.

Stephan Neff: 00:37:30

Okay, so eight out of 10 a month ago.

Stephan Neff: 00:37:33

Uh, now we're at six out of 10.

Stephan Neff: 00:37:35

You're actually better, and wow, your wife again looks attractive to you.

Stephan Neff: 00:37:39

Hang on.

Stephan Neff: 00:37:40

That-- we, we haven't had that for a while.

Stephan Neff: 00:37:42

So those kind of things, that is far more important than a lab value We use lab values in the right setting, but I wouldn't-- I w- I, I don't treat lab values, I treat individuals.

Mike Forrester: 00:37:55

Yeah.

Mike Forrester: 00:37:56

It sounds like the easiest starting point, which you touched on earlier, go get some exercise, walk.

Stephan Neff: 00:38:03

Mm.

Mike Forrester: 00:38:04

Uh, watch what you're eating- Mm … and sleep.

Stephan Neff: 00:38:07

Mm.

Mike Forrester: 00:38:07

But as far as getting points, you know, on, on a measurable aspect, go get some blood work.

Mike Forrester: 00:38:15

Absolutely.

Mike Forrester: 00:38:16

And then you have something to compare it to.

Stephan Neff: 00:38:17

Absolutely.

Mike Forrester: 00:38:17

It doesn't have to be anything extravagant- Mm … expensive.

Mike Forrester: 00:38:20

No.

Mike Forrester: 00:38:21

There's almost, I would say, almost common sense when we- Mm … step back and- Yeah … look at it to go… You talked about, you know, vitamin D3.

Stephan Neff: 00:38:31

Mm.

Mike Forrester: 00:38:32

We are in our houses a lot.

Mike Forrester: 00:38:34

We are in a building at work a lot, so that means we're not getting outside in the sun.

Mike Forrester: 00:38:40

Magnesium, you know, you mentioned that one.

Mike Forrester: 00:38:42

It's like there's almost some things that as a default we can take that are going to help us just kind of fortify our position.

Stephan Neff: 00:38:51

Absolutely.

Mike Forrester: 00:38:52

And it's like it's totally accessible.

Mike Forrester: 00:38:55

You talked about not being a victim and, and we can take steps like that, um, at some level to help ourselves to take action and move in a way that's going to, you know, get the needle so that we are in a healthy range if we're not, and if we are kind of on that lower end, to move it up to a normal, a normal normal-

Mike Forrester: 00:39:17

not… instead of a low normal.

Mike Forrester: 00:39:19

Right?

Mike Forrester: 00:39:20

So-

Stephan Neff: 00:39:20

I love

Mike Forrester: 00:39:21

that … well, Stephan, yeah, I appreciate it, man.

Mike Forrester: 00:39:24

Um, I wanna say thank you very much for explaining it, 'cause we can have- almost expected beliefs about it, but they may not be true.

Mike Forrester: 00:39:35

It's almost, you know, like you just hear something, yeah, that sounds right, and you kinda run with it.

Mike Forrester: 00:39:42

But oftentimes hearing what it is can then give us the insight to take the proper action.

Mike Forrester: 00:39:48

So I appreciate you sharing what you have here today, and I know you've got a lot more.

Mike Forrester: 00:39:54

We just scratched the surface.

Mike Forrester: 00:39:56

So if guys are going, "Hey, man, Stephan, I am having that brain fog, uh, sleep, you know, there's no drive," you know, like I'm checking off a lot of boxes here, Stephan.

Mike Forrester: 00:40:08

How can guys get in touch with you?

Mike Forrester: 00:40:11

Yeah, I mean, hey, that, it, you know, unfortunately it's more common than not because- Absolutely … as guys, just like we don't talk about the emotional, mental side, we're not talking about the physical side.

Mike Forrester: 00:40:21

I mean, I don't see anybody, you know, running around, "I have ED," you know.

Mike Forrester: 00:40:25

"I don't find my wife attractive." You know, it's-- Those things aren't discussed openly.

Mike Forrester: 00:40:31

Absolutely.

Mike Forrester: 00:40:31

So it's like when nobody else is discussing it and you know your struggle, you think you're the only one.

Mike Forrester: 00:40:37

Yeah.

Mike Forrester: 00:40:37

But going to someone like yourself, you know, like your, your general doctor, um, you know, can give us the insights to make those decisions.

Mike Forrester: 00:40:48

So if a guy's looking at it and going, "Stephan, yep, I've checked off way too many boxes. I want some help."

Stephan Neff: 00:40:54

Yeah.

Mike Forrester: 00:40:54

How do they connect with you to get that information and, and find out where they do stand?

Stephan Neff: 00:40:59

Absolutely.

Stephan Neff: 00:41:00

Uh, I would be delighted to be of help.

Stephan Neff: 00:41:02

Um, for those of you who are more interested in the mental side of things, that would be nethinspiration.com.

Stephan Neff: 00:41:10

The other website is more my clinic website.

Stephan Neff: 00:41:13

So if you know already, wow, okay, I really need to shift the needle a bit in my body, and which in turn then will give me a far better chance to be the man that I want to show up in my daily life, then go to nefffunctionalmedicine, all in one word, nefffunctionalmedicine.com, and you can pretty much find me there.

Stephan Neff: 00:41:37

But it is-- I want to leave you with just one thought.

Stephan Neff: 00:41:41

You are in control, and whilst it might be e-extremely overwhelming, whatever is happening in your life right now, there are so many little things that might not cost you anything, that might just be a, a different mindset.

Stephan Neff: 00:41:58

This might be something where you suddenly become a leader with-within your family by you modeling some regular hydration, by you modeling some two minutes of physical exercise before food.

Stephan Neff: 00:42:13

'Cause that is such an easy way.

Stephan Neff: 00:42:15

Uh, instead of just going, uh, let's say at work, you go from, from your desk to the food, you could say, "From the desk, I go to the stairway, go two minutes up and down the stairs, and then go to my food." What happens is your, your glucose receptors on the muscles have opened up wide and said, "Hey, no, no, any, any, any food that comes along, we'll take it first.

Stephan Neff: 00:42:38

Not the fat, not the liver.

Stephan Neff: 00:42:39

No, I want it." And so simple things, little tricks like that.

Stephan Neff: 00:42:44

And once you know them and implement them, you are in control.

Stephan Neff: 00:42:48

So guys, go out there, nefffunctionalmedicine or neffinspiration.com and say hello.

Mike Forrester: 00:42:55

Fantastic.

Mike Forrester: 00:42:56

Stephan, thank you very much, my friend.

Mike Forrester: 00:42:58

I appreciate it.

Stephan Neff: 00:42:59

A pleasure and an honor.

Stephan Neff: 00:43:01

See you next time.