The Power of Purpose: Igniting Your Passion and Finding Meaning in Life with Greg Gerber

LFTP_S2_E233_GregGerber_Descript.txt

Well, hello and welcome back, my friend. And this week, Greg Gerber is joining me. He has like a podcast, a blog, whole platform he's building out and it's called Forward From 50 and just phenomenal, man. I mean, there's so many, uh, people, men and women as we hit 50 and continue on without the purpose and our focus, kids have left, we're just wandering, start dividing and it's, statistics that you don't want to end up on that side. And so Greg's focus, his passion, just what he is running after wholeheartedly is helping people to find the purpose to live a passionate, joy filled life, uh, whether it's now or, you know, in Greg's case, he's focused on those of us that are over 50. And it's like, dude. That's amazing. So Greg is not, not only has that platform, but he's also an author of two books. Uh, first one is Restore Joy to Your Life and then Pornicide: Why Lust is Killing Your Faith, Stealing Your Joy, and Destroying Your Life.

Yup.

And so, yeah.

I also have another.

What's that buddy?

I also have another book that I published last year called 50 over 50 and it's profiles of 50 people over the age of 50 who are pursuing entirely different direction for their life.

What was your biggest, like, takeaway from that one?

From that book?

Yeah. From your most recent one?

Just how people found purpose in their lives. I mean, it was just, some of them stumbled on it. They just recognized the need and created a business or an opportunity around it. Other people just had a pain in their life and wanted their, to share their pain and the stories that they are, lessons they've learned from that with other people to make them better and help them endure what they're going through. It just, it didn't take a lot for these people to find a purpose. They didn't have to go in for counseling or anything like that. They just saw a need and went to, started to fulfill it.

It's like just around the corner hiding from us. If we'll only look, right?

Exactly. That's right. Or listen to that quiet voice that's telling you, Hey, go over here. I want you to do this.

Absolutely. Well, Greg, let's start out. What does life look like for you professionally today?

Today, I'm running Forward From 50, which is the platform to help men and women over the age of 50 to live more purposeful lives by pursuing things they are passionate about. I also do some freelance writing and podcasting for some other companies.

Very cool.

Thank you.

And the writing you had to have a journalism background. Is that right?

I do. I have a degree in public relations, but I worked as a journalist covering the recreation vehicle industry for almost 20 years.

So did you get to go out and test? Like you're in Arizona now. I know you like Wisconsin. I believe is where you.

Correct.

Original. Dude, that is a transition and a half.

It is indeed. Yes, I got tired of the winters.

Oh, I don't blame you, man. Well, but I think honestly, Greg, I would go back there for the summers though, because the summer is in Arizona? Woo.

Oh yeah. It's sweltering here today, but we are getting a hurricane this weekend, so it'll be interesting.

Yeah. Let's just switch things up and kind of, uh, give, give a attitude to the, to the weather, right?

That's right. Absolutely.

So when you were doing the journalism for recreation, like, did you get to actually go out on the sand dunes and ride dune buggies and motorcycles and stuff like that? Or what?

yes, I actually bought one in: 2014

Okay. I'm jealous. We're going to have to talk.

Don't do what I did. I moved too quickly. You know, I like the people who are work camping, which is working short term jobs for a variety of employers. So they'll pull in, they'll spend a season working at a campground or a water park or something like that. Recreate an amusement park. And then they'll head down South and work down there doing something for a while. And that way they get to really enjoy the area they're in and immerse themselves in that culture.

So rather than just being like a road warrior, kind of.

Exactly.

Running around the place, you take up residence for a bit and get feel for the culture?

Yep. I moved every three to five days when I was in my motor home and it was just too much travel. Way too fast.

Gotcha. Well, that's good advice, man. It's becoming more of a commonplace thing, you know, being in a, in an RV or a motor home or bus, you know, some, some kind of, uh, vehicle along those lines or a repurposed bus, right?

It's funny, when I was younger, they'd said, if you don't shape up and get your act together, you're going to wind up living in a van by the river. Now that is a life goal.

You achieved it before it was cool, Greg.

That's right. I did. I was the pioneer.

There you go. What does life look like for you on the personal side today?

On the personal side, I just live alone here in Arizona. I have three daughters, they're all grown. Five grandchildren. My daughters live in Texas, the Dallas area, and then one up in Wisconsin and one in Illinois, in, uh, Southwest Chicago area.

Gotcha. Well, very cool. And you're ahead of me on the grandkids.

They're wonderful. I highly recommend it.

Yeah. After we get through the, uh, raising them, right. We get to, uh, then spoil them and give them candy and everything. Send them home.

That's what they say. It's your reward for not killing your kids when they were teenagers.

Absolutely. Oh man. Well, Greg, let's, let's step back a bit. Um, kind of go from, you and I had talked about the fact of, you know, like growing up as a child and not really having like that welcoming, nurturing environment, what, what was going on? And then after that, let's talk about how it set you up moving into adulthood. Like, how did that impact you?

Sure. That's a very good, very good thing because it was a hard childhood. My parents were divorced when I was eight years old. And my dad was a public school teacher and he worked in Oshkosh, Wisconsin. And the year after the divorce, my mom packed up my sister and I and moved to the Madison area. And so I only saw my dad probably six times a year. And that would include one week during the summer. And it just wasn't enough for a guy growing up by himself. It was, you know, a horrible lack of self confidence. I never really learned to play sports and still don't do that today. I just, uh, didn't understand how to play the games or I didn't have the confidence to go in there and actually compete or do anything like that. Uh, the big problem that I had as well is that I not only grew up without my dad, but I heard from my mom almost every day, go live with your father. And that was very hard because I had already been abandoned in my heart by my dad and then I felt as though I was being rejected by my mom as well. And so it just, I became kind of a loner, had very few friends growing up in school and things like that. When you internalize that sense of abandonment, it can cause all kinds of problems going forward. It makes you not trusting other people or worse, you're going to end a relationship before somebody can hurt you again. And so you tend to build up walls or just walk away really quickly. And that was something that was a challenge for most of my life. But then again, I have there with, with very few exceptions, every male who has entered my life, through my entire 63 years has left within eight years. And it's just hard. Yeah, it's just strange that that's happened that way and it's hard to kind of go through life without a lot of guy friends, people in my life, but I have had some great mentors along the way and it's just like God put people in my life at the exact moment that I needed it to teach me the lesson or to take me to the next step or the next level.

You talked about walls going up and they're not being a trust. Was that something that you discovered quickly as you became an adult or did it take a while? And how, how did you come to the realization of that?

Well, you know, even in middle school, I was bullied almost every day. I was beat up by somebody, a guy or a gal, pushed into lockers and things like that. Again, when it's, fed right into the low self esteem. I didn't fight back cause I really didn't know how to do that. Nobody actually taught me. And with that, that low self esteem going forward, it just made it difficult for me to connect or have the passion or enthusiasm that I needed to really push forward. Um, the best thing that happened to me after getting fired from my first job within a couple of weeks, was getting a job at McDonald's. And, I, that, the general manager of that store became one of my early mentors, in that he taught me a lot about business and challenged me to really improve. And it was my first experience where I was rewarded based on the work that I did, and the quality of work that I did. And after I received a couple of rewards in that way, work became very interesting and I became consumed with it. I would work 40 hours a week or more as a high school junior. And I just, yeah, back then it was allowed. Now the government has laws that ensure that kids get enough TV time and screen time, uh, at night rather than learning about business and, uh, things that they, can make them better.

Yeah. Do you see that like, that reward kind of, that shift there, did that, when you then continued on and you got into journalism and everything, did that foster like a, uh, almost like a work ethic of like a workaholic or was it kept in balance there?

McDonald's gave me the real work ethic of working hard and doing your best and always working. And that's something that I've carried through all my life. You know, we were taught the mantra up here. If you've got time to lean, you got time to clean. So there's always doing something. But before becoming a journalist, I was actually an event photographer in New Mexico. I started that business when I was in the military working as a journalist for the Holloman Air Force Base. I ran their base newspaper and on the side, I started taking pictures of fraternity and sorority parties and then eventually incorporated high schools, parties like dances or proms, homecoming, thing like that, and weddings and sports teams and all that other kind of thing. So when I started that, I became very driven because it was taught early in my life that the more I worked, the harder I work, the bigger the reward. So if I were to look back on my life, that lesson of being in business for myself back then as a photographer, kind of forced me or didn't force me, but I chose to pursue that rather than family. And then when I shut down that business at the risk of being divorced, my wife made a commitment that she was moving back to Wisconsin and I could either join her or pay for, or pay child support for the next 18 years for the kids. And I grew up without a father and I knew what that was like. So I didn't want that. I went back to Wisconsin with them. And at that point I started to invest more time into the family and do more things with the kids. Things that I didn't have my father do in my life when I was growing up. And so I think that helped. We have, I have great relationships with all three of my daughters today, and that's because I spent a lot of time in that, with them. In fact, one thing that one piece of advice I got very early on when my oldest was eight years old, was to take time to go out on one on one dates with each of my daughters once a month. And I did that religiously the entire time they were at home. And for me, it was another thing on the schedule and sometimes it was a kind of a nuisance and I did it and we had fun and all of that. It was a great experience, but I had no idea how impactful it was on my children until my daughters were in their twenties explaining to me what it meant for them, because as they got older they were given a budget and the ability to plan the time that we had together. So they would think about the time that they were going to have one on one with dad for a month in planning things. And when I'd come home with one of the girls after our little date, I did not see this, but they'd disappear up into that girl's room and they'd all, what'd you do with dad? You know, oh my gosh, I want to do that. I'm gonna do that sometime. And they'd start sharing their plans about that they were going to do with dad on their next date night or whatever. As the girls got into their teens, twelve, thirteens, and they could be by themselves, they were given the opportunity to accompany me on one business trip every year. So that, uh, they were come January, they were excited to know where all the trade show schedules were so they could start planning on where dad was going to be able to go and take them on those trips. But it really helped make, uh, uh, uh, develop a strong bond between me and my daughters. And I really appreciate that today.

So you said they, they knew their budget, right?

Right.

Um, you know, somebody might be thinking. Oh, my gosh. Great. I, my budget's already tight. I can't afford to do this. The truth is we can't afford not to do this. Having done something similar to like what you're talking about.

Exactly.

What would you say? You know, if you've got me, Greg, and I'm saying that to you, Hey, I, I can't afford it. How can I change my perspective to how can I make this happen? Um, can you walk me through like what you would coach me on?

If, yeah, if you didn't have a lot of money to invest in this and by budget, I'm saying, all right, you got $20 and this is going to cover it. So are we going to go to a movie? Are we going to go out to dinner? Are we going to go shopping? That kind of thing. And that's it. You plan it, you could spend it in that regard. Uh, but if you really didn't have a lot of money, then I would just say, you know, go for a walk in the park. You know, go, uh, take a, take a tour of a museum or something like that. Take the, if the kids are really young, go to the children's museum, something where they could interact with you and you could interact with them. But the key would be to stay off your phone when you're with the child, because the kids see that all the time, mom and dad are on their phone and the kids are begging for attention. So when you're with the child, be there. And be available and be participatory and asking them questions and things like that so that you can develop those conversations and eventually they'll open up. And if you have that relationship early on, there's hardly anything that will come up in their life that they're not going to be willing to talk to you about. Especially if you kind of take a breath and not jump on their case when they're doing something wrong. And they're coming to you with, uh, dad, I really screwed up this time. You know, you're not, you're going to hate me for this kind of thing. And it's like, okay, let's talk about it.

Yeah. And, and I will be the first to say, Greg, like, you don't have to do it perfectly. Like they will take the joy in it. And I can, I can honestly say in the beginning, I was the one that jumped in with both feet on stuff. And it was like, I was not the safe place, but as I grew and you know, I changed, then it became a different environment, and the communication with that also changed. So much like you're talking about, they want that time. They want to be able to come to us.

They need it.

Yes. Absolutely.

They're starving for attention. A lot of these kids are. Especially those who are growing up in single parent homes. Where they might not see their father at all. So when, if you are in one of those situations and you have an opportunity to visit with your children, then be present all the time and maintain that contact. You know, even, even back then when I was eight, nine, 10 years old, my dad would send me letters. Eventually, he would record messages and so he, he bought me a little recorder so I could record messages and mail them back to him and things like that. So it made communicating fun, but, uh, maintaining that contact is so important. I like the saying that you can't have impact without contact, right? And so if you want to impact the child's life, it's going to require a lot of content and sometimes it's going to be when it's inconvenient for you.

And it's, I think the best thing is to write it down and make sure that, you know, that it's on the calendar as well as them knowing it's on the calendar. Cause like you talked about your daughter's going, Oh my gosh, what did you do? They are, they are, you know, just hungry for that time.

That's right.

And making sure we keep our commitment, will, you know, help to build and foster that trust. So.

Yeah.

That's, that's totally cool. I love that you were doing that, you know.

Thank you.

Because it sets up a different, uh, like a different relationship when they're adults, you know.

It is. And that's something that I was given a dream when they were little girls, I actually imagined what it would be like being with them when they were in their forties. And I had such a good relationship and things like that, that it caught me off guard to see that far in advance or to be thinking about it. And so I really dedicated a lot of my time and energy to building that relationship for them to grow in and for them to bond with me and have that trusting, loving, mutual affection relationship, I guess. I don't know, mutually affectionate, if that's the right word for a dad and daughter. But, uh, we had a lot of respect for each other. And that was nice. I gave each of the girls little nicknames and, you know, the just only only dad got to talk, call them by those nicknames. And that was just another thing that we had done that was so special.

That's cool. Building in that unique relationship there. Um, I know that a lot of us is what we've experienced growing up, we will carry into how we parent. How are you able to break that? Because you, you're talking about not reacting quickly, you know, in, in a way to shut them down or, you know, distance, you know, build that gap. How did you, how did you disconnect from what you'd grown up with to then what you're intentionally living out and the relationship you're fostering?

Well, you'd have to ask my daughters because I think they'd probably say that I jumped in a lot, you know, but they, they messed up, you know, and the thing that I, I enforced a lot was what I called a time violation. If they were going to violate my time by wasting it, then they were going to have to pay me something or reimburse me. For example, if they told me that I had to deliver them somewhere at seven o'clock and I got there at seven o'clock and they weren't supposed to be there until eight o'clock, or tell me that I'll be ready to be picked up at eight o'clock and they weren't ready until 9:30, then, you know, that was a time violation. I really got upset with them about that. But I think the thing that I carried forward was just spending time with the girls. Now, I didn't do that all the time. I mean, I spent an enormous amount of time in my office, in the lower level of my house while the kids were upstairs doing their thing, but they all, the door was always open. They could always come down and just hang out and chat with me or whatever the case might be. But we did that special one on one time altogether a lot. And we also did family time a lot. The other thing that we did for many years was have dinner together. That was almost a sacred time for us. The five of us were together just communicating what happened that day, what, what went well, what didn't go well, and just amazing what kinds of things can come out from those kind of conversations, and you can't do that in front of a television.

Yeah. Did your daughters at all push back and go, Oh, we have to do this again. And in that, that time, as you're beginning that habit, did they push back on you? Cause I mean, that's one thing that you'll see, you know, like in TV or you'll hear from people, is I tried starting to do this having dinner and conversation and the kids just didn't want to engage. They didn't want to talk. Like was that something you experienced? And if so, how did you get past it?

hen this, this all started in: 1995

So before that point you still kind of had an inkling of how to do it or what?

I wasn't nearly as committed as I was before I became a Christian. It's just, that's one of the things that moved me in that direction because I finally realized, you know, I went to a, a kind of a faith based, uh, business meeting and the speaker was talking about, so do you think you're a good dad? And it was like, well, I'm okay. And then they started asking questions. Do you know this? Do you know that about your kid? What did you do? When was the last time you did this with them? And I realized, oh my goodness, no, I'm failing in that regard. Do you think you're a good spouse? I'm okay. Are you doing this to your wife? Are you supporting her in this way? You know, that kind of thing. And it just caught my attention and realized that I needed to make some very major changes to the way I was living my life before I totally destroyed everything that I was trying to build.

I think, uh, yeah, I had that rude awakening as well. It was like, Hey, I'm wearing these glasses. I look good. Yeah, things are going okay. You know, and then it was like.

Yeah.

Much, much like you, you know, and I had actually asked my wife as well, and it was like, uh, no, this the way that you're thinking. Oh, oops.

I tell people that I felt like I was at that conference sitting on a metal folding chair under a bright light. And whenever I had answered one of those questions, I got smacked up the head with the Minneapolis phone book and it was like, Oh my goodness.

Yeah. It's, it's one of those that we can have our epiphanies.

Right.

You know, many different ways.

Yes.

o jump, jump back here. So in: 2019

Yes.

And from there, like, you know, if you look at many of us that have, um, you know, maybe you've been laid off or fired or gotten to that point of, Hey, I'm, just like you, I'm stepping out of corporate. I'm stepping out of work. I'm stepping out of this business. There's kind of that transition and it's just this void.

Yes.

And you're left feeling unclear on the path forward, unsure about who you are and just kind of empty. Can you take us back to that time and what did things look like? And how did you get out of it to where you are now, knowing that it's like, this is what I'm created for. This is my purpose.

I'd be happy to do that. We actually have to go back a couple of years. Remember when I said I was full time RVing for three years?

Yes.

entually sold the business in: 2017

Yeah. And what you're sharing, like knowing your purpose.

Yeah.

There's so many of us that it's like our career, our work, whichever, you know, lane you're in becomes our identity.

Right?

And then when it's removed, it's like, now who am I? And you end up being almost like you were at 18 when you got out of high school. And it's like, what do I want to be when I grow up? It's like, well, now I've aged, but I'm still not grown up.

Exactly. When you start thinking that men are living to be 88, 90 years old and you're retiring at 55 or 60, you got an enormous amount of time left to live. And so to not have a purpose for your life at that point, it just, it's sad. It's just a horrible existence. It's a dark, frustrating experience and I don't wish it on anybody.

Yeah. It's, it's one of those of like being, being in a big river that's moving fast without a rudder on a.

Right.

On a boat, you know, you just get tossed to and fro and in slammed into the rocks, you know.

It might be different for people who retire because they plan on it. That's their decision, they're going to leave the job and do something else. It's entirely different for men who are fired and forced out of the job, etc earlier than they expected to be because then they didn't even have time to prepare for what they were going to do next or what the next step is. And I did find, you know, it is very difficult for men my age to get work, and I'm going to be 63 this weekend. So at, by the time you get to 55, 60 years old, many companies don't want to hire you. Because they, A, think you want too much money, or B, you're only going to be there a short time, or C, what the heck do old people know, right? We need youth and vitality in our organization. Let alone, not realizing that we have a tremendous amount of life experience. In addition to our natural talents and the learned skills that we have, we have so much to offer other people. When we over 50 years old, we really need to step out and start serving people in that regard.

Well, happy early birthday, Greg.

Thank you.

Because we're only a couple of days away from that. Do, do we have to wait until we're after 50 to find out our purpose and start working through that?

Oh no.

Or is that something we can do at any age? And how do we figure it out?

I think that you can do it at any age, and there are a number of ways you, you can do it. Uh, a friend of mine that I interviewed early on, uh, said he, he's developed a coin or coined the phrase an intrapreneur, not an entrepreneur, but an intrapreneur. So you work within the company you are in. But you take on more responsibilities and you do things that you're passionate about and skilled in doing, and you have a conversation with your boss and say, Hey, I need to do this, or I want to do this. Can I do it? And see what they say. And if they say no, then find another place where you can do it. But yes, you get a purpose. Always involves other people and that's why I think I mentioned that already. You know, you can't golf all day because you're not providing a service to other people. Golfing is a hobby. Fishing all day is a hobby. Now a hobby can be turned into a purpose relatively quickly by incorporating that aspect of service. So take fishing for example. You like to fish all day? You want to go out there and do that? Super! Start a business and be a fishing guide and teach other people how to fall in love with fishing. Help them select the equipment that they need, help them select the right bait to catch the, the, the kind of fish that you wanna do, help them identify a fish. I could pull a fish out of a lake and I wouldn't have a clue what kind it was. You know, it just, a fish is a fish is a fish. I know the difference between a whale, a shark, and that's about it. You know, , everything else falls into fish. But yeah, by, by incorporating other people into your hobby, that can become a business or it become a purpose for you. Say example, an older person like myself, taking a young child fishing, helping them fall in love with the thing that you love to do is going to serve not only you, but them for a lifetime. And it just, do you see what I mean by, by how you incorporate other people?

Yeah, absolutely. Um, it's, it's one that being alone and isolated, I think is one of the worst places that we can be because there's nobody that we're talking about and sharing. Um, and there's also nobody else that's there to help encourage.

That's exactly right.

You know, it's like, Hey, I just need the boost. Like you talked about Vincent, right?

Yes.

Vincent was that encourager, he gave you a different perspective than what you, you know, had been operating under.

Right.

And I mean, that's a, that's a gift Vincent has, you know, so, um, but, but being out of community, being out of relationship with other men, um, uh, or other people period. But I would say as men being in a community with men is very powerful because we can call each other out. I think differently than we would allow others to.

Right. I just interviewed somebody not too long ago who said that the average person has 0.9 friends, like 0.9 friends? So some, you know, out of every 10 people that you talk to, one of them won't have any friends at all. And the other nine will have one and that's it. Just one close friend, which is sad because I grew up hearing that you had to have at least six friends because there are six handles on a coffin. And without six friends to be your pallbearers, your wife would have to hire a, hire pallbearers. So you need at least six friends. And I, I don't know if I've got six friends, really, at this point. And that's a problem is we have to be intentionable about forming those relationships, especially as we get older, because our friends die and they move away. If I had been up in Wisconsin, you know, and I had a friend, a very close friend who retired and moved to Arizona and I wouldn't be able to see them anymore, it would be hard. And it was hard for me to leave the people that I knew up in Wisconsin for many years to start over in Arizona. But yeah, we need to form those relationships, especially in men. And it's even better if you can do it in groups of men.

That's super powerful. Um, I wanted to, to talk about. Um, you know, you wrote Pornicide.

Yes.

I wanted to kind of switch over to porn because particularly when we don't have that purpose and we're isolated, that's where a lot of us turn to. I know for me personally, it was something that I was introduced at the age of nine.

Nine?

By my parents.

Wow.

You know, um, and so it's something that a lot of us struggle with just looking for like that validation in an unhealthy place, medicating. Um, how did it come about for you and how did you get out of it?

rst Wednesday of September in: 1972

Yeah. Now, and you shared like, hey, this is destructive.

Horribly.

So as far as you had talked about it being like destructive to our lives.

Yes.

I've talked with other men that have said it doesn't hurt anybody. It's not bothering them. I've lived the same journey you're talking about, I can appreciate it and absolutely agree that yes, it's destructive. It, like, got in and messed with not only my life, but the relationship between my wife and I. How do you see it play out where it is destructive in our lives? What does that look like?

Absolutely. I write about that in my book. It's called the slippery slope. You, you start in one area and for me, if they followed my journey, you know, you started in, uh, like swimsuit models and things like that. And then you went into soft core pornography and then you need more and so you go into hard core pornography. And eventually, you know, people go into live shows and things that, and start having affairs and then homosexuality. The bottom of that list, you know, as child pornography, and then from there, you know, you go down to rape and murder, even like snuff videos and things like that. It is just so destructive that you become desensitized to the people that you're looking at, does that make sense? The women become objects, not people. And they're not there by choice. Many times, you know, they are there because out of desperation or they're addicted or they've been kidnapped or whatever the case might be. And it can, it is very destructive. There is no reason at all, I think for anybody to be involved in pornography. And I wish to God, somebody had told me that when I was a preteen myself.

Yeah. It's like a gateway drug, so to speak. I mean, you just go further and further and further. And it's just, you know.

It's hard to love your wife.

Yes.

Because you are imagine when you're, you're making love to her, you're imagining the models that you've seen, et cetera. And, or I, even worse, I've heard of women complaining that the, the men in their lives want them to carry out the fantasies that they've seen played out in videos and, and images in men's magazines and things like that. It's degrading to the women and it's just, there's no redeeming value at all to pornography. It is a scourge in the earth and a scourge in the church. The number of people in churches who admit that they have problems like that 65 percent of Christian men admit they have a problem with pornography. 35 percent of Christian women admit that. A quarter of all pastors admit they have a problem with it. It is a horrible scourge on our society and what nobody wants to talk about is what's coming next. Because the kids with their cell phones and things like that and are starting to experiment and take pictures of themselves and share them with others. So they are being addicted to child pornography at a very young age and people do not fall up that slippery slope. And nobody is talking about what's going to happen next with these kids. Are they going to stick with that, that age of attraction or are they going to go even further and down that slippery slope to things that are just horrible?

Well, and you had talked about it being like, um, Leaving us detached from like our wives, right?

Yes.

And, and it absolutely does. I mean, we've got enough other challenges. You know, pulling with, Hey, I've got, you know, finances as a problem. I've got not knowing my purpose, you know, low self esteem, time, you know, the kids are driving my wife nuts, you know, works wanting more, more time from me. There's all these other things that are demanding energy and time, um, out of us that it's like, we don't need something else that's going to divide like our wives.

Right.

Uh, proximity to us, right? Wanting to be with us and feeling distant and detached. I mean, you talked about COVID, right? And being alone. We don't need that loneliness.

Exactly.

In our relationship with our wife, who's, you know, we're supposed to be the closest to.

Exactly.

And you always feel like you're hiding something. So you know, there's that, that's pushing it away as well. I mean, it's just kind of like one of those, it's like a side dish, you know?

Mm-Hmm. That's right.

To a toxic main course.

It's the shame, as well.

Yes.

You realize that one of the things that Satan loves to do is teach guys or get guys to believe that they are the only people who are this bad off. And you don't talk about this to anybody because you are so bad. You're just, people are going to knock you and make fun of you, et cetera, and, and disassociate with you because you're so perverted because you like pornography. And so guys internalize that and they keep that secret to themselves. Yet everybody around them can often tell that they have a problem. They might not know it's pornography, but they're distant. They're detached. They're aloof. They have no purpose. They just have no joy. They're often angry with themselves, which makes them angry for other people. And it's just a horrible experience. Guys need to come out of it. Problem is, there are very few resources out there to do that. That's why I wrote Pornicide. It is a fiction book about a man who is caught up in the scourge of pornography. His wife finds out that he had the problem. And insist that he get counseling to do that. And he encounters a man who is actually helps him through it by connecting him with other men who've also gone through it. And each one of the men have a different lesson to teach him through all of this. And at the end, because he has a strong network of men rooting for him and pulling for him to come out of there that he can turn to when he has a problem, weren't going to condemn him when he falls, he is able to walk away. And that's what I wish, I wish every church would do something like that. And it's rare that you see churches that have any kind of programs at all for those kinds of behaviors, destructive behaviors that men want to get rid of, if only they could.

Yeah. And, and it's like the shame that comes from this, and, you know, like you were talking about, you think you're the only one.

Yes.

Like the message that plays through your head. It is just another wall that we build up thinking I'm not enough. I'm not equipped.

Exactly.

I don't belong. It just, it's like napalm on the fire, keeping us distant from one another. When it's like we need, just like you and I talked earlier, we need that relationship with other men to, you know, like build us up, encourage us to call us out and to, it's almost like going to the gym, right? But it's us in, in our entirety, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, that we're calling each other out and we get built up, which then impacts, it's like a boulder being tossed into the, the lake of life. Those ripples impact who we show up as a husband, who we show up as a father, how we do at, you know, our career, our business, our relationships with our friends, just even who we are walking down the street, that emotion plays out. That, um, inner embodiment, you know, is seen by others. And so it's like, it's just another thing that builds a wall.

Exactly. There is no redeeming value to this problem at all, or this thing that people like to do. And we're just seeing more and more perversity coming in as a result of it. More and more darkness. Pornography is often consumed in total darkness when you think about it. And we need more light to come into our lives. And it's the light that chases the darkness away.

100 percent agreed, Greg, thank you so much for sharing, you know, both from the porn aspect and how destructive it is to having dates with our daughters, and I would say it even goes to our sons. Like I, you know.

Absolutely.

Would have time with my son, taking him out, you know, like creating those memories, even though we may look at it and go, I only took them out for ice cream. That is of such value to them. And like you shared, your daughters were in their twenties and.

I had no idea. I was.

Yeah, they they're carrying gold, right?

Moved to tears when I heard what they had, the impact that those date nights had on their lives. Really. I truly had no idea how impactful it was.

Hmm. Well, that's super cool.

Thank you.

I appreciate you sharing all that, my friend. How can men connect with you outside of this podcast? How can they get in touch with you?

They can visit my website at ForwardFrom50.Com.

Very cool. And if you like what you've heard here and you're like, Hey, I, I am in this 50 bracket, again, Greg has podcast Forward From 50. That's linked and available from the website as well, correct?

Exactly. That's right. Yep. Super. And if people need, need help in identifying a purpose for their life or taking that vital first step toward achieving it, I'm happy to help them with that as well.

Yeah.

If they'd like to have a little conversation, we'll do a brainstorming session and see if we can't get the creative juices going. You know, Vincent did that for me and it paid big dividends. So I'm willing to do that with other guys as well.

Thank you so much, my friend.

My pleasure.

I appreciate it.

Thank you.