The Art of Curating Your Life Team for Maximum Growth with David Nordel

Mike Forster: 00:00:02

This is the Living Fearless Today podcast, a show that helps men like you and me who are struggling to get unstuck and overcome fear, to live confidently and courageously.

Mike Forster: 00:00:12

I'm your host and transformation coach, Mike Forster, helping you create the change you want.

Mike Forster: 00:00:18

Now join me as I interview men who've conquered their challenges and soared to success as they spill their secrets on how they live.

Mike Forster: 00:00:25

Fearless today.

Mike Forster: 00:00:41

Well, hello and welcome back, my friend.

Mike Forster: 00:00:43

This week I'm joined by David Nordell.

Mike Forster: 00:00:46

And David was in the air force for 30 years and as a command chief master sergeant.

Mike Forster: 00:00:55

And that is a lot of responsibility.

Mike Forster: 00:00:58

Like, if you can't tell off of the, off of the level of that.

Mike Forster: 00:01:03

David had seen a lot, David has done a lot, and he has led people in that role.

Mike Forster: 00:01:11

And so his background and experience is going to be, again, over 30 years, involved in combat situations, involved in just leadership and everything through there.

Mike Forster: 00:01:24

So David is now doing consulting.

Mike Forster: 00:01:27

He's written a couple books.

Mike Forster: 00:01:29

I mean, the man is giving back and helping those of us who are in a position where it's like, man, I want to elevate.

Mike Forster: 00:01:39

I don't know how I want to heal.

Mike Forster: 00:01:41

Where do I start?

Mike Forster: 00:01:43

He's kind of like that sherpa, that guide.

Mike Forster: 00:01:46

He's walked the path.

Mike Forster: 00:01:47

He's helped other people, and now he's kind of given that hand up to access a different position, a different way in life.

Mike Forster: 00:01:56

And so, david, I appreciate you joining me.

Mike Forster: 00:01:59

How are you doing today, my friend?

David Nordell: 00:02:00

It's funny that you use the word sherpa because you said died, but you know what sherpas do?

David Nordell: 00:02:07

Sherpas help carry the load.

David Nordell: 00:02:09

And it's usually uphill, and it always.

Mike Forster: 00:02:14

Seems to be in very severe weather.

David Nordell: 00:02:17

That's so I.

David Nordell: 00:02:18

Well, I.

David Nordell: 00:02:19

So I appreciate the descriptive because there's figurative, literal application for that.

David Nordell: 00:02:24

Hey, I'm doing, I'm doing Maxfam.

David Nordell: 00:02:26

I am doing Max van fabulous.

David Nordell: 00:02:28

I mean, today's, today's great, and I'm glad to be here with you, Mike.

David Nordell: 00:02:31

You know, we just had, we just had probably about a ten or 15 minutes conversation before we started.

David Nordell: 00:02:36

So I'm excited about share and excited to help people grow.

David Nordell: 00:02:42

And, and this stuff is always good for guys like you and me, too, no matter where we're at in our journey.

David Nordell: 00:02:46

So.

Mike Forster: 00:02:47

Tell you about it 100%.

Mike Forster: 00:02:49

I mean, it's encouraging.

Mike Forster: 00:02:51

It's inspiring, and it's almost like a reality check, right?

Mike Forster: 00:02:56

We get to bounce off of each other and just go, yep.

Mike Forster: 00:03:00

It's not just me.

Mike Forster: 00:03:03

There is another way.

Mike Forster: 00:03:04

And learning along the way, because it's like I may do something in one manner and you're going to do it in a completely different.

Mike Forster: 00:03:11

Neither of them are necessarily wrong.

Mike Forster: 00:03:13

1 may fit the personality and the situation better.

Mike Forster: 00:03:16

And so I think it almost adds like, to a toolkit.

Mike Forster: 00:03:21

Right?

Mike Forster: 00:03:22

It's the hammer and the screwdriver.

Mike Forster: 00:03:23

They both got a place.

Mike Forster: 00:03:25

Where do you apply them and how so?

David Nordell: 00:03:27

Right?

Mike Forster: 00:03:28

I love conversing with other people about that stuff.

David Nordell: 00:03:31

Yeah, well, you bet.

David Nordell: 00:03:33

Every journey is not the same.

David Nordell: 00:03:36

However, there's pathways out there that we don't even know that are open to us.

David Nordell: 00:03:40

So sometimes through these conversations, you can see other pathways, other ways to get to the same place, and it gives you options, and that's the best.

David Nordell: 00:03:49

And then the sharing.

David Nordell: 00:03:50

Right.

David Nordell: 00:03:51

There's the old cliche of misery loves company really applies.

Mike Forster: 00:03:56

It definitely does, believe me.

Mike Forster: 00:03:58

I found enough people that were feeling miserable and just helped to pile that on.

Mike Forster: 00:04:04

It became like, you know, just.

Mike Forster: 00:04:06

It was comfortable in its discomfort because I knew what it felt like.

David Nordell: 00:04:12

Sure.

Mike Forster: 00:04:13

Well, let me jump.

Mike Forster: 00:04:14

Jump off here and start off by asking, what does life look like for you today?

Mike Forster: 00:04:19

On the professional side of life?

David Nordell: 00:04:21

On the professional side, it's really all about giving back.

David Nordell: 00:04:24

I would tell you, even recently, as recently as about 24 hours ago, I have had a lot of significant events happen to and for, and the people that I know, you know, intimately through my life.

David Nordell: 00:04:40

And some of these are death.

David Nordell: 00:04:42

Some of these are death, and they're death that what we would call a younger age.

David Nordell: 00:04:46

And you start to feel your mortality and people will say in kind of a flip manner, you got to live every day like it's your last, you know, and, you know, you never know when, you know it might all be over and those kind of things.

David Nordell: 00:04:59

And I think that that's all fair, but I want to turn that around a little bit.

David Nordell: 00:05:04

Cause this is really where I'm at.

David Nordell: 00:05:06

I'm at a state when I wake up every day that I say, okay, I've got all these nuggets from all these years, and that's some of the things you mentioned earlier, who's gonna get them and how am I gonna give them back today?

David Nordell: 00:05:19

And that.

David Nordell: 00:05:20

Yeah, because we only have so much.

David Nordell: 00:05:22

Time is finite, and so we only have so much of that.

David Nordell: 00:05:27

We only have so much effort.

David Nordell: 00:05:29

We only have so much energy.

David Nordell: 00:05:30

And quite frankly, the older you get, your energy is different.

David Nordell: 00:05:34

I won't say that you run out of it or you don't have capacity, but your energy's different.

David Nordell: 00:05:38

And so where are you going to put that energy.

David Nordell: 00:05:40

Cause you only have so much.

David Nordell: 00:05:41

A guy like me, people that know me well would say to you that say, hey, Mike, Dave is.

David Nordell: 00:05:46

He never stops moving.

David Nordell: 00:05:47

But I will tell you that people that knew me when I was 25 would say, dave slowed down a lot of.

David Nordell: 00:05:52

So it's all that perception, but you only have so much energy.

David Nordell: 00:05:56

So where am I at in life?

David Nordell: 00:05:57

I'm giving back.

David Nordell: 00:05:58

I'm looking outside of myself constantly.

David Nordell: 00:06:01

I'm working on my relationship with the Lord every single day, because heaven knows I'm a sinner and I'm going to need work all the way up to the last day.

David Nordell: 00:06:12

And through that, by improving myself, I get to improve other people's positions.

David Nordell: 00:06:17

And I'm not out there, and I'm not out there looking for misery or people that are going through things that I've gone through.

David Nordell: 00:06:22

I'm not out there looking for that, but I'm out there, and somehow there's plenty to do.

David Nordell: 00:06:29

And so in there comes, comes.

David Nordell: 00:06:31

What attitude do I wake up with every day?

David Nordell: 00:06:34

And my attitude is that I'm going to make a difference in some way, small or big, every single day.

David Nordell: 00:06:40

And that's how I raise my boys.

David Nordell: 00:06:41

If you ask my boys today, well, what do you need to do today?

David Nordell: 00:06:43

I'd say make a difference in some positive way.

David Nordell: 00:06:46

And so that's where I'm at, and it's actually a pretty awesome place to be, and I have the capacity to do that.

David Nordell: 00:06:55

So we move forward and we use whatever time we have left in a.

David Nordell: 00:06:59

In a way that leaves whatever's, you know, whatever, whatever, whatever dust trail that you leave.

David Nordell: 00:07:06

It's positive and it's productive, and you leave good, you know, good seeds and grow better people than even.

David Nordell: 00:07:14

Than we are.

David Nordell: 00:07:14

So, yeah, yeah.

Mike Forster: 00:07:17

And in listening to you there, it's like, know purpose, vision, awareness, and also being aware, like you said, the limited time where it's like we can just kind of haphazardly wander through.

Mike Forster: 00:07:33

You're being very intentional and purposeful in what you do.

Mike Forster: 00:07:36

And, I mean, that just makes such a difference.

Mike Forster: 00:07:39

I've done both sides, and I will tell you what you're doing and how you're doing it.

Mike Forster: 00:07:43

That is absolutely just like a life changer in being aware of what's going on around you and where you're at enough to say, yeah, my energy is different now than it was at 25, but I'm still engaged and running.

Mike Forster: 00:07:59

So I really love that.

David Nordell: 00:08:01

I had a guy on my podcast, he's the CEO of our over community economic development.

David Nordell: 00:08:11

And we got to talking about, because we had some similar life situations, losing a parenthood.

David Nordell: 00:08:15

We both recently lost a parent and we're similar age and we were talking about this bell curve in life.

David Nordell: 00:08:24

And so when you're born, your bell curve is kind of flat and then you start up the bell curve and that's career and family and what am I going to do?

David Nordell: 00:08:31

And the new job and education, all those things, right?

David Nordell: 00:08:34

College, all that stuff.

David Nordell: 00:08:35

If you go to college or trade school, whatever you're doing and all those type of things, and at some point in time you get to the top of that bell curve, whatever that looks like, that's usually in your late forties and I and early fifties, that's when you're the director of, or the CEO of whatever, whatever aspirations you wanted, you know, in my case, probably being a command chief.

David Nordell: 00:08:53

Right?

David Nordell: 00:08:54

Yeah.

David Nordell: 00:08:55

And so, but then we start down the back end of that build, right?

David Nordell: 00:08:58

That's when you start looking towards retirement and those, and those type of things.

David Nordell: 00:09:03

And this bell curve can apply to anything other than just life in general.

David Nordell: 00:09:07

And a lot of people think that when you hit the bottom of that bell curve, it sounds like something like 65.

David Nordell: 00:09:12

And I'm on Social Security and I get up in the morning and I play 18 holes and put my feet up, right.

David Nordell: 00:09:17

And that's nice.

David Nordell: 00:09:18

And some of us do that.

David Nordell: 00:09:19

And I'm guilty of living that lifestyle occasionally during war.

David Nordell: 00:09:23

But.

David Nordell: 00:09:25

But really what there is, is there's two bell curves in life.

David Nordell: 00:09:29

And through the.

David Nordell: 00:09:30

As you're pinnacling off of that second bell curve, and this, this goes along with recovery from some of the things we're going to talk about.

David Nordell: 00:09:36

As you need to come off that second bell curve, you need to be setting yourself up for the next build.

David Nordell: 00:09:41

The next belt curve is shorter and it's not as high, but there is a next bell curve and what are you going to do with that?

David Nordell: 00:09:48

And so when you ask that question, I would say that I am on the upside of the second belgrade.

Mike Forster: 00:09:54

Yeah.

Mike Forster: 00:09:55

And I will say, having lost three of the four parents between my wife and I, man, you can set yourself up to be able to traverse it in a healthy manner versus medicating as you go through it.

Mike Forster: 00:10:15

Right.

Mike Forster: 00:10:15

So there's two ways to go through it.

Mike Forster: 00:10:19

One that you're strong in it, the other one that it's a strong man situation and you're not coming out on top.

Mike Forster: 00:10:28

Well, let's jump onto the personal side, David.

David Nordell: 00:10:30

Sure.

Mike Forster: 00:10:31

What does the personal side of life look like?

Mike Forster: 00:10:33

For you.

David Nordell: 00:10:35

So I've been third married 31 years.

David Nordell: 00:10:37

I had a marriage.

David Nordell: 00:10:38

I had a five year marriage before that.

David Nordell: 00:10:42

And, you know, when you're serving like I did, your personal.

David Nordell: 00:10:48

There's not a lot of personal.

David Nordell: 00:10:49

If you're in the military, there's not a lot of personal side.

David Nordell: 00:10:51

The first two things, they beat out of you, and you go to the United States military, the words I and me.

David Nordell: 00:10:57

And so.

David Nordell: 00:10:58

So you're always.

David Nordell: 00:10:59

You're always working for what was a higher purpose, and usually somebody or someone else.

David Nordell: 00:11:06

And so, personally, right now, I'm in a second growth spurt.

David Nordell: 00:11:12

I'm in the indian summer of life.

David Nordell: 00:11:15

The sun is shining, and I'm growing and working on that and putting myself in positions to grow, which sometimes is just people around you or what you're consuming as far as what you're listening to, what you're reading and those type things, what you're exposing yourself to, the conversations you're having, who's in your inner circle.

David Nordell: 00:11:32

We talked about our life teams earlier.

David Nordell: 00:11:34

We'll probably get to that.

David Nordell: 00:11:35

Those type of things.

David Nordell: 00:11:36

And I think that, you know, I think that.

David Nordell: 00:11:39

I think as of right now, with some clarity, we'll talk about, you know, the journey to this point.

David Nordell: 00:11:46

There's a little bit of magic to clarity when we start to eliminate these things you thought were necessary for you to function.

David Nordell: 00:11:55

You know, the three greatest shepherds of Mendez who are struggling, and whether we all men struggle, they think that there's a man out there that's not struggling, and it's just your.

David Nordell: 00:12:05

Your knots.

David Nordell: 00:12:06

But the three greatest shepherds of men are Jim, Johnny, and Jack or their irish cousins.

David Nordell: 00:12:13

And so.

David Nordell: 00:12:15

And because they're easy, right?

David Nordell: 00:12:17

They're about the most reliable friend you'll ever have.

David Nordell: 00:12:19

They never disagree with you.

David Nordell: 00:12:20

They always show up, and they get you right where you want to be, at least for the lonely.

David Nordell: 00:12:26

That's just.

David Nordell: 00:12:28

You know, that's just the easy way.

David Nordell: 00:12:30

And a lot of times when we look at things and we say, boy, that's really, you know, that looks harder.

David Nordell: 00:12:36

Fear and pain are the two things that keep us from progressing.

David Nordell: 00:12:40

Sometimes it's easier just to melt into those areas.

David Nordell: 00:12:43

And I've reached a level of clarity now where I don't have those distractions.

David Nordell: 00:12:49

And so, personally, I think I've set myself up to achieve, you know, personal growth and development and have some.

David Nordell: 00:12:58

Some calmness within me then to forgive myself and give myself grace before I give everybody else grace and all of those things that as men who.

David Nordell: 00:13:09

He's just terribly stink.

David Nordell: 00:13:12

We're awful.

David Nordell: 00:13:13

We're off, you know, at the same time that we want to be angry and lash out at the world, we're yelling at ourselves.

David Nordell: 00:13:21

In fact, when we're yelling, were yelling twice as loud as ourselves.

David Nordell: 00:13:25

And I think you and I are going to talk a little bit about anger, because I just, I just.

David Nordell: 00:13:30

This week I had a family reach out to me because they were concerned about their son.

David Nordell: 00:13:34

And the precipice of their concern was this unbridled anger that they'd never seen in him before.

David Nordell: 00:13:43

And he's going through a really, you know, a really rough time in life.

David Nordell: 00:13:46

And then I was explaining to them, I said, we never get it.

David Nordell: 00:13:50

The reason that we're angry is because we either feel betrayed or out of control.

David Nordell: 00:13:54

And what are we supposed to be as men?

David Nordell: 00:13:56

Totally in control.

David Nordell: 00:13:57

You know, the.

David Nordell: 00:13:58

The holder of the.

David Nordell: 00:13:59

Holder of the sword, you know, the, you know, the.

David Nordell: 00:14:02

I've got the shield, all of those type of things.

David Nordell: 00:14:04

And when we can't control that, the first emotion's anger.

David Nordell: 00:14:08

And I think we don't ever.

David Nordell: 00:14:09

We never get stuck out of that.

David Nordell: 00:14:11

You know, we never get out of that.

David Nordell: 00:14:12

And then when you're angry all the time, your relationships deteriorate.

David Nordell: 00:14:15

When you don't have relationships, you don't have help, and you're not going to get out of any of this stuff without help.

David Nordell: 00:14:20

And so it's just this, it's just a self licking ice cream cone, this cannibalistic thing that goes along, and it's just not healthy.

David Nordell: 00:14:30

So I am fortunate enough that I've transitioned these things, and I think that we're going to talk about so specifically, but I transitioned in these things that, where I'm at now, because of this clarity, I'm doing maximum.

Mike Forster: 00:14:47

There you go.

Mike Forster: 00:14:49

So when you look back and PTSD was something like that you've experienced and gone through, do you often see that tied with the anger that you're seeing this young man exhibit?

Mike Forster: 00:15:07

Is that something that's usually tied with that PTSD?

David Nordell: 00:15:13

Well, so, you know, I write and talk about, and they've actually published PhD level literature with my moral injury story out at area university, which people can go, I can guess, I could send those links to you electronically and people can download that, and that's all free.

David Nordell: 00:15:29

And I can read through that and the stories in depth, and I might share some of that with you.

David Nordell: 00:15:33

PTSD and moral injury run separately, but the one thing that I think they have in common is that it drives the anger, because think about it, and you know, you and I have talked about it.

David Nordell: 00:15:43

If you have pts, you're addicted to alcohol, you need anchor management, you gamble too much.

David Nordell: 00:15:50

Pornography is huge in the male population at certain ages.

David Nordell: 00:15:54

I mean, it's just a thing.

David Nordell: 00:15:58

If you have those things, I think, look, there's a couple things.

David Nordell: 00:16:01

One is if you're violating what you were programmed morally and ethically, and this is where your parents are at, when that gets violated, you get mad.

David Nordell: 00:16:11

Why?

David Nordell: 00:16:12

Because men operate off of this trust, right?

David Nordell: 00:16:14

This bond of honor, this handshake agreement thing.

David Nordell: 00:16:17

I looked him in the eye and I shook his hand.

David Nordell: 00:16:19

And by goalie, he was lying to me.

David Nordell: 00:16:21

So you know I'm mad, right?

David Nordell: 00:16:24

Well, it's no different.

David Nordell: 00:16:25

It's just internal struggle.

David Nordell: 00:16:27

That anger comes out when we feel betrayed or out of control.

David Nordell: 00:16:34

Quite frankly, what you just described is a level of betrayal because Im supposed to be this.

David Nordell: 00:16:42

This has happened to me.

David Nordell: 00:16:44

Im not processing it.

David Nordell: 00:16:47

Its chemically screwing me up.

David Nordell: 00:16:50

Its mentally screwing me up because Im not built to process this.

David Nordell: 00:16:54

Right.

David Nordell: 00:16:54

So youve got to understand, we operate on chemicals.

David Nordell: 00:16:57

The good Lord, when he created us, put all these chemicals in there and he said this is balanced, right?

David Nordell: 00:17:02

And so one too many pinches of soil will make the soup taste bad.

David Nordell: 00:17:08

And so we need to be balanced.

David Nordell: 00:17:10

And pts and moral injury throw us out of balance because it throws us out of our touch with reality and it throws us out of our touch.

David Nordell: 00:17:17

It throws us out of balance even chemically and emotionally.

David Nordell: 00:17:19

And our heart rate and all that stuff, everything changed.

David Nordell: 00:17:22

And when we feel mildly, mildly out of control as a man, we're mat, we figure that if we yell out enough or as we were talking about, use seven profane words all in a row, there's a noun and a verb and an adverb and adjective and an exclamation.

David Nordell: 00:17:39

All of that's in there.

David Nordell: 00:17:41

And it's just totally profane laden that for some reason that's like some magic oil that will shake away the demon.

David Nordell: 00:17:48

And that's not the case.

David Nordell: 00:17:50

And so I think anger is the number one most manifested thing.

David Nordell: 00:17:55

And I think in relationships when the male either.

David Nordell: 00:18:00

So I'll get a little deep here.

David Nordell: 00:18:02

If you're a woman and you meet a man and anger is part of the early relationship, you really need to think twice about the longevity of that relationship where the person needs to get some help.

David Nordell: 00:18:12

Number one.

David Nordell: 00:18:13

han catching your drinking at: 10:00

David Nordell: 00:18:30

It's the same thing.

David Nordell: 00:18:31

It's just how I deal on it.

Mike Forster: 00:18:34

Well, I was just looking back on that anger because I was that guy, you know, it's like Eeyore and the Hulk, right?

Mike Forster: 00:18:42

And that Hulk was absolute rage.

Mike Forster: 00:18:44

I think the hard part in it also, David, was the more subtle part.

Mike Forster: 00:18:49

I was mad at myself for being allowed to be gotten right, to being able to be betrayed.

Mike Forster: 00:18:59

But there's also that shame of, what will everybody think in the fact that I wasn't in control enough and didn't have my guard up to stop that.

Mike Forster: 00:19:10

And it was like both sides of the spectrum, there's that internal and that external directed rage that came from those situations where it was like, gosh dang it, and I think it was easier to take care of addressing the external part.

Mike Forster: 00:19:29

The harder one to let go was that internal aspect where it was like, how did I allow myself to be here?

Mike Forster: 00:19:37

And then there was all the degrading, self deprecating talk that went on internally that just continued to pile on.

David Nordell: 00:19:47

Let me give you an example.

David Nordell: 00:19:49

This is for your listeners.

David Nordell: 00:19:50

This is you and I talking, but let me give you an example.

David Nordell: 00:19:54

I grew up in northern California, rural northern California, in the middle of nowhere, in a dairy farm community, on a dairy farm.

David Nordell: 00:20:05

What do you think was told to me as a young man when I fell down?

David Nordell: 00:20:11

What do you think was told to me when I said I was tired?

David Nordell: 00:20:15

What do you think it was told to me when I said, I can't lift that?

David Nordell: 00:20:19

What do you think the words were?

David Nordell: 00:20:23

And you're talking generation upon generation upon generation.

David Nordell: 00:20:26

Yeah.

David Nordell: 00:20:27

And anything short of exhibiting what those words were, rub some dirt on it.

David Nordell: 00:20:35

You know, you're a fill in the blank because you can't lift that bucket.

David Nordell: 00:20:41

You know that we don't have time to be tired around here.

David Nordell: 00:20:45

Tiredness week, right?

David Nordell: 00:20:48

dn't lift, you couldn't throw: 1080

David Nordell: 00:21:08

So you are lesser of the man, and you are always being graded and stacked upon when you take all of that, because most of us have certain similar experiences.

David Nordell: 00:21:18

When you take all of that and you go out into the big world and the big world puts these challenges on you, the last thing that closes your mind is to walk into a room and say, I'm weak and I need help?

David Nordell: 00:21:29

I can't lift.

David Nordell: 00:21:32

And so what happens?

David Nordell: 00:21:33

You get mad.

David Nordell: 00:21:36

You get mad and then, you know, it's when you get mad and then you.

David Nordell: 00:21:41

That self talk that you talked about when it gets going so fast.

David Nordell: 00:21:45

There's like a couple of ways to shut that off.

David Nordell: 00:21:48

One is to exercise until you vomit and two is to drink until you vomit.

David Nordell: 00:21:56

And most guys, most, because most guys pick the.

David Nordell: 00:21:58

Pick the alcohol or some sort of, some sort of numbing age.

Mike Forster: 00:22:02

Yeah, there's, there's usually some kind of medication that goes along with it.

Mike Forster: 00:22:06

You know, it's, there's a whole bar full of different options, but yeah, there's, there's usually something we'll lean to with that.

Mike Forster: 00:22:16

Having been the way you grew up and the messages that you got, David, as you began to experience stuff, how did you decide to start dealing with things in a healthy way rather than just pushing it off to the side, ignoring it or medicating for it, but instead addressing it and taking it on directly?

David Nordell: 00:22:40

Sure.

David Nordell: 00:22:40

This is the part where your listeners all lame in because they think, I'm going to give them the five whys or the seven how's the twelve habits?

David Nordell: 00:22:48

And I will tell you, I almost died.

David Nordell: 00:22:52

The turning point was near death.

David Nordell: 00:22:55

You and I are talking right now so that the people are listening.

David Nordell: 00:22:59

Don't have to get where I had to get and get a second chance.

David Nordell: 00:23:03

I got sloppy.

David Nordell: 00:23:04

When I retired, I got sloppy.

David Nordell: 00:23:06

I was still mad about a lot of things.

David Nordell: 00:23:08

This military transition, which is a lot of my work, this military transition thing.

David Nordell: 00:23:12

The last ten years of being out has probably been harder than the 30 years that I served in a lot of ways, especially psychologically.

David Nordell: 00:23:19

And I got sloppy and I started to feel sorry for myself.

David Nordell: 00:23:22

I was mad.

David Nordell: 00:23:24

I was drinking probably one or two or ten more too many beers daily.

David Nordell: 00:23:28

All of that stuff was going on and I threw a huge blood clot out of my way.

David Nordell: 00:23:34

I had a clot from my groin all the way to my ankle and all the way to my lungs.

David Nordell: 00:23:38

And quite frankly, the odds on that I had a saddle pe.

David Nordell: 00:23:42

It was huge.

David Nordell: 00:23:42

And one of the quads was, I mean, it was an 8th of an inch from being totally occlusive.

David Nordell: 00:23:49

And now it had been just lights out, right?

David Nordell: 00:23:52

And so Im sitting in the ER, a place very familiar to me because ive spent the hours and hours and hours of my life in that environment.

David Nordell: 00:23:59

Im sitting on the ER, in the bed and Im thinking to myself, okay, this clot could have been genetic.

David Nordell: 00:24:07

I might have a clotting disorder.

David Nordell: 00:24:08

And I'm gonna have to.

David Nordell: 00:24:09

I'm gonna have to look at that.

David Nordell: 00:24:10

And I said that I don't control, but there's a lot of things I do control.

David Nordell: 00:24:16

And if I don't get control over those and take all of this energy that's inside of me and flip the polarity on it and make it positive to start marching towards this place that I just described to get to, I'm done.

David Nordell: 00:24:30

There is no second bell curve.

David Nordell: 00:24:34

It's a flat line and it doesn't have a lot of longevity to it.

David Nordell: 00:24:37

And it's not going to do the people I love and care about.

David Nordell: 00:24:40

It's not going to do them any good.

David Nordell: 00:24:42

And doggone it, here I am with a whole sack full of goodies to give to the world, and nobody's going to get any of them because I'm stuck in this rut.

David Nordell: 00:24:52

And that was it.

David Nordell: 00:24:53

I mean, it's been a 21, 22 days.

David Nordell: 00:24:58

That's just over six years.

David Nordell: 00:25:00

Six years, two weeks over since I had a drink.

David Nordell: 00:25:05

And with the elimination of these elixirs, we'll call them these elixirs of life, with the elimination of that comes this clarity.

David Nordell: 00:25:15

My Monday morning celebrations in the shower, when I go, wow, I'm not sitting here thinking how I'm going to get rid of this fog in my head and make it through the day because I just beat my.

David Nordell: 00:25:25

Totally abused myself on a Sunday because I didn't want to face Monday, whatever that is.

David Nordell: 00:25:30

And once I got that level of clarity, two things happened right out of the gate.

David Nordell: 00:25:34

Mike.

David Nordell: 00:25:35

Number one was, I thought, okay, I've quit doing this thing that I've been doing for a long, long time.

David Nordell: 00:25:42

And I, you know, and I've got cleared up in my head and I kind of see some, some ways forward.

David Nordell: 00:25:48

And instead of stepping out and marching out and saying, I got this, and because I'm the guy and I got it, instead of saying that, I went, I need help.

David Nordell: 00:25:59

Help beyond the people that love me that are going to help me.

David Nordell: 00:26:02

I need actual help.

David Nordell: 00:26:04

I mean, literal help.

David Nordell: 00:26:06

It's like, it's like building something.

David Nordell: 00:26:09

And you go, I can't get this finished unless I have somebody come out here and hold this.

David Nordell: 00:26:13

It's just physically impossible to do the two jobs, right.

David Nordell: 00:26:16

How many guys have scars on their hands because they tried to do that by themselves because they didn't want.

David Nordell: 00:26:21

And that's just basic asking for help to finish building something and we don't do it right and somebody goes, oh, how'd you break your ankle?

David Nordell: 00:26:28

Well, I should ask for help.

David Nordell: 00:26:29

It's the first thing that comes.

David Nordell: 00:26:30

Well, I should have.

David Nordell: 00:26:31

You don't even know the story of it.

David Nordell: 00:26:32

I should have asked for help, but they didn't.

David Nordell: 00:26:35

So we need to understand that it is so counterintuitive to us to literally sit down and ask for help.

David Nordell: 00:26:42

So, when I went and looked for a therapist, I needed somebody that I thought could understand all the nuances.

David Nordell: 00:26:48

PTSD, combat, travel, having a prism on life.

David Nordell: 00:26:55

That's very broad, and it makes me forgiving in a lot of areas.

David Nordell: 00:26:59

And I consider myself diverse and inclusive at a level.

David Nordell: 00:27:04

I really don't care what people look like or where they're from or what the religions are.

David Nordell: 00:27:07

If they have an accent, they're just old human beings, and we got to operate at that level.

David Nordell: 00:27:12

And I needed somebody that can understand all of that, but I needed a critical evaluator.

David Nordell: 00:27:20

I didn't need somebody to hug me anymore and tell me that they loved me and asked me ten times over and over, what can I do?

David Nordell: 00:27:26

I needed somebody to tell me, here's what you need to do.

David Nordell: 00:27:30

Here's what boundaries look like.

David Nordell: 00:27:31

Number one, it's almost like parenting.

David Nordell: 00:27:35

Here's what boundaries look like.

David Nordell: 00:27:38

Here's the type of the things that you need to surround yourself with.

David Nordell: 00:27:41

Here's the things that you need to think about.

David Nordell: 00:27:43

Forgive yourself.

David Nordell: 00:27:46

If you're graceful, be graceful to you first.

David Nordell: 00:27:50

Then understand that you're imperfect.

David Nordell: 00:27:52

I mean, we're sinners.

David Nordell: 00:27:53

We'll be sinners till the day we die.

David Nordell: 00:27:54

It's just who we are.

David Nordell: 00:27:55

And so.

David Nordell: 00:27:57

And so we have.

David Nordell: 00:27:58

Definitely, definitely, definitely.

David Nordell: 00:27:59

When you cross, those are the two bridges, clarity and help.

David Nordell: 00:28:05

And when you can, and you don't have to achieve on the.

David Nordell: 00:28:07

That doesn't have to be in that order.

David Nordell: 00:28:09

You can achieve clarity by getting help, and you can get help by achieving clarity.

David Nordell: 00:28:14

So don't think that there's.

David Nordell: 00:28:17

There's no checklist to this, but people know when they have fog.

David Nordell: 00:28:22

And whatever it takes to eliminate the fog.

David Nordell: 00:28:24

When you eliminate the fog, you will start making the positive change.

David Nordell: 00:28:27

And when the positive change comes, it is just, like, freaking frightening.

David Nordell: 00:28:31

And it just.

David Nordell: 00:28:31

It's almost been possible to stop because it feels so good.

Mike Forster: 00:28:36

One mistake I have made when I did have that clarity and knew I needed help is I wasn't willing to follow through with the guidance that I was given.

Mike Forster: 00:28:49

And I know it's not just me.

Mike Forster: 00:28:50

There's other men, clients, and friends that I've worked with.

Mike Forster: 00:28:55

How did you put yourself in that place to be open to when that person that's counseling you or coaching you.

Mike Forster: 00:29:03

David, they say you need to go do X.

Mike Forster: 00:29:06

You then go do X.

Mike Forster: 00:29:07

Rather than getting angry at them and going, I don't want to do X.

Mike Forster: 00:29:10

I want to go do Y.

Mike Forster: 00:29:11

How did you put yourself in that place?

David Nordell: 00:29:14

Yeah, I let the therapist one digest.

David Nordell: 00:29:16

So I was so pissed.

David Nordell: 00:29:17

I came out and told.

David Nordell: 00:29:18

I told my wife, I called my kids.

David Nordell: 00:29:20

I told my wife, I said, you know what?

David Nordell: 00:29:21

You guys all been violating my boundary.

David Nordell: 00:29:23

I took everything.

David Nordell: 00:29:24

They were all just mad.

David Nordell: 00:29:25

I was mad again, right?

David Nordell: 00:29:27

I was mad.

David Nordell: 00:29:27

And really, what it was, was I was addressing them with anger about the fact that I felt weak because I couldn't control my boundaries.

David Nordell: 00:29:37

And it just seems like such a simple thing.

David Nordell: 00:29:39

And these things that you have no control over that you let affect you because you let that affect you.

David Nordell: 00:29:45

So, for instance, you and I will probably vote in 100 however many days and when the election comes, and that's our part.

David Nordell: 00:29:53

But I can't let polling numbers or rhetoric or speech or some news station.

David Nordell: 00:29:58

I can't let that blow my life up.

David Nordell: 00:30:02

I can't let my poorly mannered cousin make me lose sleep at night.

David Nordell: 00:30:12

Most people need to be outside of that.

David Nordell: 00:30:14

So I got mad.

David Nordell: 00:30:14

So, to answer your question, the answer.

David Nordell: 00:30:16

Your question was, you have to forgive yourself first.

David Nordell: 00:30:21

There's no.

David Nordell: 00:30:22

There's no.

David Nordell: 00:30:23

There's no retake, Mike.

David Nordell: 00:30:26

There's things in the last 50, almost 59.

David Nordell: 00:30:29

There's a lot of.

David Nordell: 00:30:29

There's things in the last 59 years that I am not proud of that I could have done better, that.

David Nordell: 00:30:35

That put me in a spot where I needed to do this extra work to get back to, you know, back to where I needed to be.

David Nordell: 00:30:41

I cannot change that stuff.

David Nordell: 00:30:45

So you have to forgive yourself.

David Nordell: 00:30:47

That's through grace and timothy.

David Nordell: 00:30:49

The other thing is that if I sat here and told you every hiccup in my life that shaped me, if I did that, they would sound like all your hiccups.

David Nordell: 00:31:02

Except if it involved a person, the name would be different.

David Nordell: 00:31:04

If it involved food, it would be a dairy, it would be fish and not steak, but it would be the same.

David Nordell: 00:31:11

It's the same thing because life is not easy, and we all have to traverse it.

David Nordell: 00:31:16

But some of the big boulders in life that come flying at you, it's only because they flew past me and that.

David Nordell: 00:31:22

And you're just a little farther down the hill, or vice versa, it's the same boulder.

David Nordell: 00:31:27

And so we've experienced these things.

David Nordell: 00:31:30

So forgive yourself.

David Nordell: 00:31:32

Understand that you could have done it better.

David Nordell: 00:31:35

I'm sure that you've been faced with that's a sand challenge a second time and knocked it out of the park because you have experience and understand that and cherish each and every one of those for what they are, which is a nugget, you know, that you can pass on, but once you forgive yourself, then you can stop for, you know, getting right to the edge of, I'm going to do it.

David Nordell: 00:31:57

It's no different than.

David Nordell: 00:31:58

Think about this, Mike.

David Nordell: 00:32:00

On Monday, I'm going to start a diet.

David Nordell: 00:32:03

On Monday, I'm going to start going to the gym.

David Nordell: 00:32:06

This all sounds like New Year's, right?

David Nordell: 00:32:10

I'm not going to drink diet soda anymore.

David Nordell: 00:32:13

And what do we do?

David Nordell: 00:32:14

What do we do when we don't follow completely to, we come up with the 10,000 reasons why it's okay to have one soda on Friday, and then pretty soon you're just drinking soda all day long back to where you were at.

David Nordell: 00:32:25

Well, because there's some level of guilt there.

David Nordell: 00:32:29

You got to give.

David Nordell: 00:32:29

You got to.

David Nordell: 00:32:30

You got to give yourself Grace.

David Nordell: 00:32:32

I said that to retired army buddy mine.

David Nordell: 00:32:36

He's a doc, special forces doc.

David Nordell: 00:32:39

And I said, you know, I said, I see so much grace in you, and you're so forgiving to everybody around you.

David Nordell: 00:32:44

I said, except for you.

David Nordell: 00:32:46

And about a week and a half later, he.

David Nordell: 00:32:48

About a week and a half later, he wrote me back and he goes, man.

David Nordell: 00:32:51

He goes, that was kind of powerful.

David Nordell: 00:32:53

I said, no, it's just reality.

David Nordell: 00:32:54

It's just who we are.

David Nordell: 00:32:56

And men, women come to each other.

David Nordell: 00:32:58

The hardest evaluator of a mandev is the man, not anybody else.

David Nordell: 00:33:03

And, oh, by the way, women think we're.

David Nordell: 00:33:05

Women think we're silly.

David Nordell: 00:33:07

Women think we're, like, primal, like we're at a CRO magnon level.

David Nordell: 00:33:11

What are you worried about?

David Nordell: 00:33:13

Well, somebody might think this about me.

David Nordell: 00:33:15

Why would they think that?

David Nordell: 00:33:16

You know, so women that care about you in your life, they don't even, they can't even feel this thing that goes on, and so they give you the most griefs because they just think that we're silly.

David Nordell: 00:33:25

So we got to get over ourselves.

David Nordell: 00:33:27

We got to forgive ourselves and move forward in a positive way.

David Nordell: 00:33:31

We got the right people around you that are willing to give you some tough love and real hugs and those type of things when it's appropriate.

David Nordell: 00:33:40

You can conquer a whole bunch.

Mike Forster: 00:33:42

Yeah.

Mike Forster: 00:33:43

It makes a huge difference in who you surround yourself with, because like you talked about, when we look in the mirror, that can be our worst critic, the one with the least grace.

Mike Forster: 00:33:54

And we just look at ourselves like, why arent you perfect?

Mike Forster: 00:33:57

But David, I would look at you and go, I know youre not perfect, and yet look at myself and go, dude, im expecting you to be perfect.

Mike Forster: 00:34:04

We have these opposed perspectives and expectations and they just dont add up.

David Nordell: 00:34:12

Jeff, I wrote a chapter in my book that talks about, because, you know, the book has a lot of corollaries between foreign farm animals, leadership in combat, and then wife in general.

David Nordell: 00:34:24

And the title is that people cry on the farm.

David Nordell: 00:34:29

And if you've ever been around farmers, you'll understand they're the toughest people in the world and they don't know why tear up.

David Nordell: 00:34:35

It takes a lot for them to do that.

David Nordell: 00:34:38

And I went through a time during the last combat tour where I was in the leadership position that I had made a rule for myself that everybody else could cry, especially when we had major casualties and we were doing ceremonies for people that we couldn't save.

David Nordell: 00:34:53

And I won't go into the description of that, but it's a thing, and it's forever etched in you, especially after really long days when you're not tired.

David Nordell: 00:35:06

We went through that a lot.

David Nordell: 00:35:08

My rule to myself was instead I cry.

David Nordell: 00:35:11

Then it will be a crack in the organization because of where I sat in the leadership chain.

David Nordell: 00:35:16

People are looking at me to take their cue.

David Nordell: 00:35:19

However, I always noticed in those situations, I was the only one that wasn't crying.

David Nordell: 00:35:25

And Mike, that damaged me for the rest of my life.

David Nordell: 00:35:29

And it doesn't matter how hard I cry now.

David Nordell: 00:35:31

I should have cried then.

David Nordell: 00:35:33

This thing, this thing that we live in, this flesh that we are of, all right, caroling is in emotion.

David Nordell: 00:35:40

It's not weak.

David Nordell: 00:35:41

It's in the emotion.

David Nordell: 00:35:42

People love to be laughing.

David Nordell: 00:35:44

Oh, look, he's laughing all the time.

David Nordell: 00:35:45

He said he's happy.

David Nordell: 00:35:47

People say that, oh, you look so happy.

David Nordell: 00:35:49

Why are you so happy?

David Nordell: 00:35:52

Nobody comes up to you very often and says, why do you look sad or why are you crying?

David Nordell: 00:35:56

In fact, people walk away when you're crying because we have this stigma.

David Nordell: 00:35:59

That's a shameful thing.

David Nordell: 00:36:00

Actually, it's a purging.

David Nordell: 00:36:03

It's no different than anything else that we do to purge.

David Nordell: 00:36:08

If the emotion drives you to tears, then cry, doggone it.

David Nordell: 00:36:14

And if somebody is around that's judgmental, that goes, oh, you're a crybaby.

David Nordell: 00:36:18

Or they say something because we all have heard it, they're off the life team.

David Nordell: 00:36:22

What you need to tell them is, you are not part of my life team at a level that you get to give me that feedback because one, you're wrong, and two, you're not doing me any good.

David Nordell: 00:36:31

You're sucking off of me from now on.

David Nordell: 00:36:35

Heres your new space.

David Nordell: 00:36:36

Do that a couple of times and your life team gets really small.

David Nordell: 00:36:41

And for people like me, that like these big, I like, people around your life team gets really small really fast and ill give you an example.

David Nordell: 00:36:51

I had a guy, I was out in North Dakota with a friend who just lost his wife.

David Nordell: 00:36:56

I told you, ive had a lot of that going on.

David Nordell: 00:36:59

Did the obligatory how can I help?

David Nordell: 00:37:01

And he said, I think you coming out and visiting and being president would be great.

David Nordell: 00:37:07

So I took off and drove out there and luckily I got to see my granddaughters while I was out there, too, which was great.

David Nordell: 00:37:15

But we were talking to a guy during that trip that we met and he was just going through a really ugly, ugly, ugly divorce.

David Nordell: 00:37:24

Madden felt like a failure.

David Nordell: 00:37:27

I did everything I thought a man should do to set up our lives the way she wanted and she ended up running off with somebody else.

David Nordell: 00:37:33

Long story short is he needed to forgive himself for anything he thought was an indiscretion because it really wasn't.

David Nordell: 00:37:42

He had done everything that he could do and that other person would put him, put him in a rough spot.

David Nordell: 00:37:47

And then he says to me, this photos were actually, he said, wow, man.

David Nordell: 00:37:52

He goes, you sure find out fast who your friends are.

David Nordell: 00:37:56

Now he has, in life, he has a whole new different definition of friends.

David Nordell: 00:38:01

Well, we need to front load that definition, people.

David Nordell: 00:38:05

You're the men that are listening to this podcast.

David Nordell: 00:38:08

And if there's women help, you need to go reevaluate everybody that's in your inner circle and ask to sell two questions.

David Nordell: 00:38:16

Do they contribute or do they take?

David Nordell: 00:38:18

And if they take, do I get back?

David Nordell: 00:38:21

And if the answer to those last two questions is a yes and a no, they got a gun.

David Nordell: 00:38:28

And sometimes that looks like your brother.

David Nordell: 00:38:31

You know, I'll say this because he's going to listen to this, but he'll smile because it's been a growing thing for both of us.

David Nordell: 00:38:37

My oldest son, he got fired off my life team for a while because I had to reset the boundaries.

David Nordell: 00:38:43

Now, I didn't think that phone call went, but I, but I have the, I have the ability to forgive myself and I'm in a space where I know that that's the right thing to do, so I do it.

Mike Forster: 00:38:56

And that's a hard conversation.

Mike Forster: 00:38:58

I mean, my parents, you know, they were not in a healthy place and had a conversation with them, they decided they didn't want to change.

Mike Forster: 00:39:08

And so, like, you're talking about with a life team and boundaries, there were boundaries that were put with them to protect not only myself, but also my family, both from my parents.

Mike Forster: 00:39:22

And the way that me interacting with my parents triggered anger, negative emotions within me.

Mike Forster: 00:39:33

So it was kind of a twofold deal.

Mike Forster: 00:39:35

But I love the way you said it was for a while, you're still in control and you still get to decide and assess, hey, have you changed?

Mike Forster: 00:39:47

And are you able to be a part of my life in a healthy way?

Mike Forster: 00:39:51

So it's not, you know, you're off the island and never able to come back.

Mike Forster: 00:39:56

It's, hey, if you want to work on you and you want to reconcile and come into my life in a healthy way, we can start moving in that direction.

Mike Forster: 00:40:07

How do you look at the people around you?

Mike Forster: 00:40:09

Friends, family, co workers, just the people that are surrounding you and decide, yes, you're in a place that I would like you on my life team.

Mike Forster: 00:40:21

How are you assessing that?

Mike Forster: 00:40:23

Is there something that goes beyond those two of, are they a giver or taker?

Mike Forster: 00:40:28

Are you looking at, are they good in finance?

Mike Forster: 00:40:31

Are they good in relationships and these different things?

Mike Forster: 00:40:36

And do you give them certain authority for different parts of your life?

David Nordell: 00:40:41

I want you to watch my podcast with Dave Kitchen.

David Nordell: 00:40:46

He does such a good job at answering this question.

David Nordell: 00:40:50

And so he has concentric circles of his lifetime, and so, yeah, so he has layered.

David Nordell: 00:41:00

He has people that are layered in their lifetime, and they all understand exactly where they are in the life.

David Nordell: 00:41:05

So, you know, so, like I said, I'm going to butcher this.

David Nordell: 00:41:09

But so you think about golf buddies, right?

David Nordell: 00:41:11

Golf buddies are golf buddies.

David Nordell: 00:41:13

You know, and if they're, you know, we've been talking about alcohol, but it's a beer drinking buddies or whatever it is, right?

David Nordell: 00:41:17

Golf buddies are golf buddies, but not everybody, just because you play golf, gets to sit down with you and work problems and solve things and those kind of things.

David Nordell: 00:41:27

His next circle in is these people you just described, people that you're willing to open up your finances to and say, hey, look at this, you know, and so you're sharing a significant thing in your life with them, but their expertise is there and they give and hook, but it still has to be given your relationship.

David Nordell: 00:41:48

And then there's those people, and then there's the people that have the right to tell you things about you.

David Nordell: 00:41:55

The people that say, you know what, Mike?

David Nordell: 00:41:58

I love you, Matt, but you're gaining weight.

David Nordell: 00:41:59

I'm concerned about you.

David Nordell: 00:42:00

I think you might.

David Nordell: 00:42:02

Well, whatever that is.

David Nordell: 00:42:03

Right.

David Nordell: 00:42:04

And those people have actually earned the right to be able to give you that feedback because they've earned enough respect from you that you know where that's coming from.

David Nordell: 00:42:14

Because I have family members that if I walked in the room today that I haven't seen for quite some time, they would find something negative about my appearance and say it out loud in front of 100 people.

David Nordell: 00:42:25

And you think that was the most inappropriate, cruel thing that anybody could do.

David Nordell: 00:42:29

You're off the lefty.

David Nordell: 00:42:30

They're not even in the golf buddy match, right.

David Nordell: 00:42:32

They're in the shin bane.

David Nordell: 00:42:34

Just go away.

David Nordell: 00:42:35

Just, you're not contributing.

David Nordell: 00:42:39

And I've done that.

David Nordell: 00:42:40

I found those people that are like that, that are like, hey, let's go play golf.

David Nordell: 00:42:43

And it's, and I use golf as an example, but you know, and let's go play golf.

David Nordell: 00:42:47

And, and you think, gosh, you know, I want to go play golf, but I don't want to play golf with you and I definitely don't want to ride in a golf cart with you for 4 hours.

Mike Forster: 00:42:57

Well, and that's, I mean, man, David, I was that negative person like you're talking about because at that point in my life, by putting you down, I temporarily and very temporary felt elevated.

Mike Forster: 00:43:12

I'm better than what I feel and it's just smoke and mirrors.

Mike Forster: 00:43:19

There's nothing there to it.

Mike Forster: 00:43:22

I'm not changing my position.

Mike Forster: 00:43:23

It's a false emotion.

Mike Forster: 00:43:25

That's just very fleeting and it's hurtful.

Mike Forster: 00:43:30

That was the part that I knew was going on, but at least I wasn't the one that was on the receiving side of the herd.

Mike Forster: 00:43:41

Totally selfish.

Mike Forster: 00:43:43

But there are those people, whether they're friends or they're family, definitely on or off the life team.

Mike Forster: 00:43:49

And it's just like, hey, if I don't feel like I can reveal myself to you, David, then you know that that should be a good indicator.

Mike Forster: 00:43:58

How do I think, how do I think you would have respond to, hey, I've got this issue here it is, are you going to be rate and belittle me?

Mike Forster: 00:44:08

Sorry, not life team material.

Mike Forster: 00:44:10

Do I think you're going to come at me with a firm yet kind of like, hey, Mike, that's not the right thing to do and I think you know that.

Mike Forster: 00:44:21

Cool, then as long as it's the hearts there, but the, it's almost like, you know, getting reprimanded.

Mike Forster: 00:44:30

Right?

Mike Forster: 00:44:30

If the heart's there and you're trying to put me on the right path, dude, we're in line.

Mike Forster: 00:44:35

That's what I need.

Mike Forster: 00:44:36

Because there's going to be those times where it's like, I screwed up.

Mike Forster: 00:44:39

Yep.

Mike Forster: 00:44:39

David, I need to be called out if you.

David Nordell: 00:44:41

And that's the key to leadership.

David Nordell: 00:44:43

And we won't do the leadership conversation today, though.

David Nordell: 00:44:46

But people want to be disciplined, and they want to be disciplined with heart.

David Nordell: 00:44:51

And if you can figure that out, people will follow you to the end of the world.

David Nordell: 00:44:56

The bully.

David Nordell: 00:44:57

You know, you talked about something there that is extreme.

David Nordell: 00:45:00

You asked him about diagnostics.

David Nordell: 00:45:01

How do you pick people?

David Nordell: 00:45:03

Preemptive people I don't get close to anymore and preemptive in their ends that you just described.

David Nordell: 00:45:10

So somebody that will walk into a room and go, oh, that guy's mustache is too long, or, you know, it looks like he's gained a little bit of weight.

David Nordell: 00:45:18

And I kind of.

David Nordell: 00:45:18

I don't need those people out.

David Nordell: 00:45:19

And they're preemptive because they have so many insecurities of their own that they're preemptively.

David Nordell: 00:45:25

So guess who?

David Nordell: 00:45:26

Guess.

David Nordell: 00:45:26

In our society, we actually have a problem right now, and it's not even at the adult stage.

David Nordell: 00:45:31

We have a problem right now.

David Nordell: 00:45:33

And when we address a problem, we're focused on the victim, and we should be focused on the perpetrator, and that's bullying, especially in our adolescent population.

David Nordell: 00:45:44

These kids, the bully, they're already broken.

David Nordell: 00:45:48

No self esteem.

David Nordell: 00:45:49

I don't know what their parents are telling them or any of those type of things, but they are bullying because they have such a lack of self respect and self image that that's what causes them to bully.

David Nordell: 00:46:02

And usually that comes along with the physical stature that enables them to do that on the physical side of things.

David Nordell: 00:46:07

And we worry so much about the victim.

David Nordell: 00:46:09

And actually, we should go up to the bully and say, you know, I feel really sorry for you where you're at.

David Nordell: 00:46:14

And we need to probably start working on some things to build up your self confidence because people with self confidence don't do that to other humans because I believe that 99.9% of humans wake up every day and want to do something right.

David Nordell: 00:46:25

They don't want to go out and hurt anybody or, you know, you know, damage things and those kind of things.

David Nordell: 00:46:31

But our life situation sometimes makes us, you know, we want to survive.

David Nordell: 00:46:36

We great.

David Nordell: 00:46:36

We wake up every day and we go into survival.

David Nordell: 00:46:38

We brush our teeth, drink water.

David Nordell: 00:46:39

We do all these things that we have to to maintain ourselves and sometimes emotionally to maintain ourselves.

David Nordell: 00:46:45

We make poor choices.

David Nordell: 00:46:47

And so when people are in that state, they can't be on my life team because I need, I'll contribute to them.

David Nordell: 00:46:51

They'll get an okay.

David Nordell: 00:46:52

If you're on my life team, you get the whole smash.

David Nordell: 00:46:55

Sometimes it's yucky, it's almost suffocating.

David Nordell: 00:46:59

But I know that it's going to be worth it because it's going to come back the other way when I need it 100%.

Mike Forster: 00:47:05

Yeah.

Mike Forster: 00:47:06

The ones that are giving are usually the ones that it's like, will walk that path and are open to being walked with when they're in that kind of situation as well.

Mike Forster: 00:47:17

So it's, you know, not just, it's not just one, one way, you know, they want you to show up for them as well.

Mike Forster: 00:47:25

So, David, I so appreciate the fact that you have shared that.

Mike Forster: 00:47:31

It's like, where we are is not like this life sentence and where we're stuck forever, but we can decide, hey, yeah, I need help.

Mike Forster: 00:47:40

How do I get help?

Mike Forster: 00:47:41

And then being intentional about being open to take action on the help that we receive, putting up the boundaries, looking for that life team and being willing to be on somebody's life team as well.

Mike Forster: 00:47:56

So, dude, those are just so powerful.

Mike Forster: 00:47:59

David and I appreciate all that you've shared today.

Mike Forster: 00:48:01

And I know this is just a drop in the bucket of, hey Brad.

Mike Forster: 00:48:04

So with guys, if they're like, hey, I want to take in more of what David has to share, how can they reach out to you outside of the podcast?

David Nordell: 00:48:12

Get on getvatready.org.

David Nordell: 00:48:16

that's the new nonprofit that is spawned off of Maxfat.

David Nordell: 00:48:20

Or you can go to maxfabmaxfabconsulting.com dot.

David Nordell: 00:48:24

You'll see some similarities there.

David Nordell: 00:48:25

The blogs are there, the podcast in there.

David Nordell: 00:48:29

But there's two big things.

David Nordell: 00:48:30

I mean, you can donate to the cause to help the veterans from our we standpoint, but the bigger piece is just click on the contact thing you need.

David Nordell: 00:48:37

Schedule an hour, 30 minutes or whatever.

David Nordell: 00:48:40

And I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna send you a bill, especially if you want to talk.

David Nordell: 00:48:44

And I don't mind doing that.

David Nordell: 00:48:46

I don't know, even if it's just to get a different perspective.

David Nordell: 00:48:50

I don't have all the answers.

David Nordell: 00:48:51

I just have a journey.

David Nordell: 00:48:52

And in my journey there's some nuggets and I'll be more than happy to share them with anybody that is at a point in time where they're ready to talk.

David Nordell: 00:49:04

Mike, we didn't hedge on some of the poor decisions that we make, but I have yet, and I've been close but I have yet to find a reason for anybody to take their own life.

David Nordell: 00:49:16

And so if anybody out there is even close to thinking about that, what I need you to do is to totally capitulate and.

David Nordell: 00:49:23

And just.

David Nordell: 00:49:24

And just, you know, open up your.

David Nordell: 00:49:26

Your heart and mind and soul and let somebody walk in and help you, because there is hope, and there is hope, and there's people out there that want to help you and give you hope.

David Nordell: 00:49:35

So if you're ever at that point, stop what you're doing, pick a phone up, find me, find Mike.

David Nordell: 00:49:40

Do something, one way or another.

David Nordell: 00:49:42

So, yeah, go to the websites.

David Nordell: 00:49:44

The books are there.

David Nordell: 00:49:45

You can.

David Nordell: 00:49:45

You can.

David Nordell: 00:49:46

You can get the books.

David Nordell: 00:49:47

The books are.

David Nordell: 00:49:47

The books are written for.

David Nordell: 00:49:49

For kind of what your mission is here, Mike, and that's just to keep people introspective and thinking and understand that there's alternatives.

David Nordell: 00:49:55

And we're all in this together, and we're walking the same journey, and the potholes all look the same, and we've all twisted our ankles.

Mike Forster: 00:50:02

So 100%, man.

Mike Forster: 00:50:05

David, thank you so much for joining me and sharing everything that you have.

Mike Forster: 00:50:08

My friend, the bad brother.

Mike Forster: 00:50:15

Thanks so much, my friend, for joining me on another episode.

Mike Forster: 00:50:18

If you found the information within the show helpful, please leave a review on the platform you're listening to helps raise the show's visibility so other men can join us in breaking free.

Mike Forster: 00:50:28

See you on the next episode.

Mike Forster: 00:50:29

And remember to continue putting yourself out there.

Mike Forster: 00:50:31

Have a great one.