How Grit and Resilience Shape Courageous Men with David Ask

Mike Forrester: 00:00:00

So David, with all that in mind, like you've talked about

Mike Forrester: 00:00:04

the grit, um, what's the difference between like grit and resilience and

Mike Forrester: 00:00:09

is, is it like we need to have one or the other or are they both useful

Mike Forrester: 00:00:15

in life as we're going forward?

Mike Forrester: 00:00:17

We need to have a good grasp on, on both.

David Ask: 00:00:20

Yeah.

David Ask: 00:00:21

Yeah.

David Ask: 00:00:21

I mean, I, I get pretty excited about this topic, so I'll try to distill the

David Ask: 00:00:26

two definitions down rather quickly.

David Ask: 00:00:28

I, um, Angela Duckworth, uh, wrote a book on grit and, and I'm, I'm kind of

David Ask: 00:00:33

paraphrasing a little bit, but you know, grit is just this idea of I'm going to

David Ask: 00:00:37

do something difficult, you know, over a long period of time, depending on what

David Ask: 00:00:41

it is, because what's on the other side of the hill is worth fighting for, right?

David Ask: 00:00:45

It's worth accomplishing.

David Ask: 00:00:46

And it's, so grit is, Doing difficult things for, you know, a specific

David Ask: 00:00:51

reason, intrinsically motivating reason and resilience, um, is just this idea

David Ask: 00:00:56

of getting back up quickly, right?

David Ask: 00:00:58

If someone is a resilient person, if they get knocked down, you know, as

David Ask: 00:01:02

it were, they get up quicker and so, but here's, here's where I think that

David Ask: 00:01:08

identity and authenticity, you know, in the, in the kind of the mode that

David Ask: 00:01:11

I'm referring to here really shapes these two words in such a better light.

David Ask: 00:01:17

So, and I'll, I'll use these words intrinsic, right, the internal narrative

David Ask: 00:01:22

versus extrinsic, which is, you know, the applause of others, the approval

David Ask: 00:01:27

of others or shame or, you know, whatever those external forces are.

David Ask: 00:01:31

So if you understand, you know, grit and resilience, you're not,

David Ask: 00:01:36

um, doing hard things because you're embarrassed if you don't, right?

David Ask: 00:01:40

Like to be somebody, you're not doing something difficult because you, you know,

David Ask: 00:01:45

you're just You know, I just desperate to finally accomplish something that someone

David Ask: 00:01:51

would say is valid or, you know, whatever that is, or people please, or, or, or,

David Ask: 00:01:56

you know, not be embarrassed or whatever.

David Ask: 00:01:57

And resilience, it's kind of the same thing really.

David Ask: 00:01:59

It's why am I getting up so quickly?

David Ask: 00:02:02

It's because, is it because I'm embarrassed?

David Ask: 00:02:05

Is it because I, well, I can't give up or I'm going to be a nobody or,

David Ask: 00:02:10

you know, all this kind of thing.

David Ask: 00:02:11

No.

David Ask: 00:02:12

A person who is solid in their identity, if they fall in the mud.

David Ask: 00:02:16

Maybe very literally, they sit there for a second and laugh with everybody else

David Ask: 00:02:21

like, Oh man, that was hilarious, right?

David Ask: 00:02:23

They're not concerned about falling down, but of course they get up and they're

David Ask: 00:02:28

like, Oh, let's, let's keep going here.

David Ask: 00:02:30

And, but here's, here's where I think that, and this is something that

David Ask: 00:02:33

dr Andy actually introduced to me is resilience is like a basketball.

David Ask: 00:02:37

So you bounce the ball really hard on the ground, you know, and it loses its

David Ask: 00:02:41

form for, you know, a split second.

David Ask: 00:02:43

But then what happens?

David Ask: 00:02:45

It bounces back to a predetermined, um, describable form, a

David Ask: 00:02:51

circumference that has data.

David Ask: 00:02:54

Well, that's kind of us, right?

David Ask: 00:02:55

If you look at, you know, who we are, we're not bouncing back to a, an oblong,

David Ask: 00:03:01

obelisk, whatever type of a, a ball.

David Ask: 00:03:03

We're bouncing back to that same who, the, the, the person that is describable.

David Ask: 00:03:10

And, and, and also I'd say this, the person who's missional.

David Ask: 00:03:15

Right.

David Ask: 00:03:15

If I, if I'm experiencing setbacks and I've, man, I've had

David Ask: 00:03:20

a bunch in the last few weeks.

David Ask: 00:03:22

It's like, you know what?

David Ask: 00:03:23

I can feel the emotion around that.

David Ask: 00:03:25

I'm human.

David Ask: 00:03:26

I'm, you know, in fact, resilience and grit require hardship.

David Ask: 00:03:30

They require consternation of your soul.

David Ask: 00:03:33

They require, you know, angst and anger and frustration and overwhelm.

David Ask: 00:03:36

You, you can't have one without the other.

David Ask: 00:03:39

And So I love this idea that, you know, grit is doing something from an

David Ask: 00:03:44

intrinsically motivating place, you know, something difficult over a long period

David Ask: 00:03:48

of time because it's worth fighting for.

David Ask: 00:03:50

And you feel called.

David Ask: 00:03:51

It's like a tether, you know, being pulled forward as opposed to this idea

David Ask: 00:03:55

of, I don't want to look like an idiot.

David Ask: 00:03:58

And then resilience, right?

David Ask: 00:03:59

Just bouncing back quickly to a predetermined.

David Ask: 00:04:03

You know, describable essence of who you are and what your mission is.

David Ask: 00:04:07

And so what we see, of course, and one of the reasons I'm passionate about this and

David Ask: 00:04:11

I'm writing the, you know, the book is, um, you have to be raised to that space.

David Ask: 00:04:19

You can't, like, to your question, can you do it after the, you know, after the fact?

David Ask: 00:04:24

Of course.

David Ask: 00:04:25

But it's a lot harder.

David Ask: 00:04:27

So, so if you're, if you're guardian, as it were, I'll just leave it at that term.

David Ask: 00:04:33

If your guardian does not, um, help you to establish, you know, the

David Ask: 00:04:38

circumference of that ball, right?

David Ask: 00:04:39

The describable essence of who you are, values, virtues, convictions,

David Ask: 00:04:45

goosebumps, the whole nine yards, you're going to have a big question

David Ask: 00:04:48

mark inside of your own soul and mind.

David Ask: 00:04:51

You're going to feel it.

David Ask: 00:04:54

And that feeling just sucks, and you're gonna, you're gonna do whatever

David Ask: 00:04:59

it takes to medicate that feeling.

David Ask: 00:05:01

And, um, by the way, everyone else around you is going to feel that question mark.

David Ask: 00:05:08

You know, they're going to experience your internal question mark.

David Ask: 00:05:13

And, um, so, you know, those, and again, those are, you know,

David Ask: 00:05:17

we are mind, body, and spirit.

David Ask: 00:05:18

You have to answer those questions about everything from eternity to love.

David Ask: 00:05:25

To justice, to values, convictions, virtues, you've got to have some bedrock.

David Ask: 00:05:30

Otherwise, you've got a, you've got a moving target for one thing,

David Ask: 00:05:33

but you have an internal, an internal, uh, well, how about this?

David Ask: 00:05:37

This is, this is something I think is really fascinating.

David Ask: 00:05:39

Dr.

David Ask: 00:05:39

Andy uses the term, you know, with the coursework, he calls it true north.

David Ask: 00:05:44

Versus a compass, right?

David Ask: 00:05:46

A compass, you know, you're going to get close, right?

David Ask: 00:05:50

But a compass does what?

David Ask: 00:05:51

It reads the magnetic field around it in order to try and establish north.

David Ask: 00:05:58

Well, what does that look like in our lives?

David Ask: 00:05:59

Right?

David Ask: 00:06:00

We're kind of reading the room.

David Ask: 00:06:01

Right?

David Ask: 00:06:02

We're kind of reading.

David Ask: 00:06:03

We're like you mentioned being a chameleon.

David Ask: 00:06:05

We're kind of just reading whoever's around us because I don't have

David Ask: 00:06:08

the internal fortitude to be me.

David Ask: 00:06:10

And if somebody mocks, even the, the false version of me, I'm going to crumble.

David Ask: 00:06:15

So I'm going to do whatever it takes to avoid pain or displeasure from

David Ask: 00:06:20

those around me, because I don't have, I don't have any idea who I am.

David Ask: 00:06:24

Well, true North is what true North is.

David Ask: 00:06:28

A specific set of coordinates, a fixed point, an immovable point

David Ask: 00:06:33

at that, you know, at that.

David Ask: 00:06:35

And that's why I think it's, you know, so for those of us who are, you know, in

David Ask: 00:06:39

the process of raising teenagers or, you know, young kids for that matter, um, I,

David Ask: 00:06:44

I can't stand it when a parent, you know, has vagary around those bedrock issues.

David Ask: 00:06:51

Well, I'm not going to tell my kids what to think, you know, they need to

David Ask: 00:06:55

decide these things for themselves.

David Ask: 00:06:57

You know what that's code for?

David Ask: 00:06:59

I have no idea what I believe, everything is a moving target, and I've not placed,

David Ask: 00:07:05

uh, uh, I don't have the courage to make a truth claim about what I believe

David Ask: 00:07:09

about everything from love to justice.

David Ask: 00:07:11

That's what you call, I'll just speak for men, that's what you call cowardice.

David Ask: 00:07:17

That's what you call, um, uh, uh, pathetic.

David Ask: 00:07:23

I'm, I'm kind of picking a fight here, right?

David Ask: 00:07:25

If, if you can't look at your children and to say that these things are immovable,

David Ask: 00:07:30

and I believe, and I'm willing to live and die for such things, you need to

David Ask: 00:07:36

get your act together, answer questions, and decide what you believe, or you are

David Ask: 00:07:42

doing your children a disservice that they're going to spend years in counseling

David Ask: 00:07:47

and addiction trying to get over.

David Ask: 00:07:50

And, um, causing your children to rise means you're causing them

David Ask: 00:07:54

to rise from something, right?

David Ask: 00:07:56

A fixed point, a, a plumb line, a, uh, you know, C.

David Ask: 00:08:00

S.

David Ask: 00:08:01

Lewis says, you know, that if someone were to, uh, if someone calls

David Ask: 00:08:05

anything crooked Well, there has to be a straight edge somewhere, right?

David Ask: 00:08:11

You're comparing it to something.

David Ask: 00:08:13

So, so that straight edge again, you may not have it perfect, but don't be,

David Ask: 00:08:20

don't be indifferent to your children.

David Ask: 00:08:22

Don't be, uh, don't be a coward, you know, surround yourself with people that

David Ask: 00:08:27

can help you drill down on those things that are absolute foundational to a

David Ask: 00:08:32

courageous, beautiful, successful life.

Mike Forrester: 00:08:36

Yeah.

Mike Forrester: 00:08:37

And that kind of segues into a, into a different question, David.

Mike Forrester: 00:08:42

So as far as my father setting the example of like, you know, um, similar

Mike Forrester: 00:08:49

style to like what you've done.

Mike Forrester: 00:08:52

Right.

Mike Forrester: 00:08:52

That wasn't there.

David Ask: 00:08:54

Right.

Mike Forrester: 00:08:54

So then I'm trying to figure out who I am as one already,

Mike Forrester: 00:09:01

which is, you know, Hey, here's a hurdle.

Mike Forrester: 00:09:04

Does it.

Mike Forrester: 00:09:05

Ever

Mike Forrester: 00:09:08

do we ever get to a point where it's like, Hey, it's too late for me.

Mike Forrester: 00:09:13

I didn't get this stuff, so I can't offer this stuff to my children.

Mike Forrester: 00:09:18

Um, as far as kind of teaching them that, or is it.

Mike Forrester: 00:09:22

Almost like trying to build a plane in the air, you do the best you can

Mike Forrester: 00:09:27

with what you've got, but you're continuing to like, you know, have

Mike Forrester: 00:09:32

that grit and perseverance to like, you know, Hey, I'm, I'm getting up.

Mike Forrester: 00:09:35

If I make a mistake and I change my beliefs because I'm still

Mike Forrester: 00:09:40

discovering who I am, you know, there's that, that persistence

Mike Forrester: 00:09:44

there, but there's also the grit.

Mike Forrester: 00:09:45

It's like, this is a tall hill to climb.

Mike Forrester: 00:09:49

Is it ever too late or is that something that it's like, um, I guess

Mike Forrester: 00:09:55

is there, is there hope for, you know, guys like me that came from,

Mike Forrester: 00:10:00

you know, the position of not having that as a, a gift from their father,

David Ask: 00:10:07

man, such a great question.

David Ask: 00:10:08

And, you know, it's funny, by the way, I kind of wanted to joke and

David Ask: 00:10:11

just be like, nope, there's no hope.

Mike Forrester: 00:10:14

Dude, it seemed like there wasn't at times, David, I'll be honest.

Mike Forrester: 00:10:17

It was like, holy crap.

Mike Forrester: 00:10:18

This is Everest.

David Ask: 00:10:20

Oh, man, I'm with you.

David Ask: 00:10:22

And it's so, you know, I kind of wish my dad was actually

David Ask: 00:10:25

sitting here with us today.

David Ask: 00:10:26

I had a conversation with him yesterday and, um, you know, he, I tell you

David Ask: 00:10:31

what, dad, dad would say this, he'll, he'll probably listen to this podcast,

David Ask: 00:10:34

but you know, he would say, man, my teens and twenties and thirties, I

David Ask: 00:10:38

was just trying to figure it out.

David Ask: 00:10:40

So.

David Ask: 00:10:41

So here's some things, though, that I'm so grateful for.

David Ask: 00:10:43

My, my parents, I never, ever doubted that they loved me.

David Ask: 00:10:49

And I'm talking like intense love.

David Ask: 00:10:51

Like I got, I was told every single day of my life, you know, David, I love you.

David Ask: 00:10:55

Like, you know, looking into my eyes, grabbing me, kissing me.

David Ask: 00:10:58

I mean, even when I'm a teenager, I love you, son.

David Ask: 00:11:01

And You know, was there a lot of other stuff going on that was a little crazy

David Ask: 00:11:05

and absolutely right there and, you know, they're, they were trying to figure

David Ask: 00:11:08

it out and, and neither of them were raised, you know, rather well, they were

David Ask: 00:11:12

provided for, but they weren't given a, you know, a paradigm, you know, like

David Ask: 00:11:16

we're talking about today to operate from it was, you know, be kind to everybody,

David Ask: 00:11:21

don't be a jerk and work really hard.

David Ask: 00:11:23

And, you know, some other things there.

David Ask: 00:11:24

I don't, that's a minimalist kind of a statement there.

David Ask: 00:11:27

I've got.

David Ask: 00:11:28

Yeah.

David Ask: 00:11:28

Great parents, but so to your point though, your, your story, right, is really

David Ask: 00:11:33

common, sadly, you know, way too common.

David Ask: 00:11:37

Look at, look at the, look at the literally broken homes, brokenness that

David Ask: 00:11:43

happens when people are not raised period.

David Ask: 00:11:48

You know, it's not to say that you can't be raised and still make poor

David Ask: 00:11:51

choices, but boy, it's really hard to stay off track, you know, when,

David Ask: 00:11:57

when you've been loved and, and, and given a bedrock to, to launch from.

David Ask: 00:12:02

So, you know, is it, is it too late?

David Ask: 00:12:04

Of course not.

David Ask: 00:12:05

And here's, here's what I think is really wonderful.

David Ask: 00:12:08

My, uh, my friend Carter Crenshaw, he said.

David Ask: 00:12:11

He said the, the job, the first, no, he said it this way.

David Ask: 00:12:16

The first job of a father is protector.

David Ask: 00:12:18

The second job is first one to say, I'm sorry.

David Ask: 00:12:22

The first repenter, the first one that says, you know what?

David Ask: 00:12:26

I didn't really handle that very well, or I'm not sure what the heck I'm doing,

David Ask: 00:12:30

but I want you to know I love you.

David Ask: 00:12:32

So, so I think that.

David Ask: 00:12:35

You know, this idea of doing justly, loving mercy and walking humbly, right?

David Ask: 00:12:40

Those three things that are required of us is, is a father, even in my case,

David Ask: 00:12:46

I feel like I'm rather well equipped.

David Ask: 00:12:48

You know, to be a great dad, my parents laid a pretty good foundation,

David Ask: 00:12:52

you know, I kind of stood on their shoulders and ran with it and been

David Ask: 00:12:55

very fortunate to be surrounded by some really wonderful people to help me.

David Ask: 00:12:59

And, um, but I, I think that, um, um, the key really is humility.

David Ask: 00:13:08

You know, because I'm going to blow it and I do all the time and I'll be

David Ask: 00:13:11

honest, I think I'm a really great dad and I hope my kids would say that.

David Ask: 00:13:15

But guess what?

David Ask: 00:13:15

I can be a total ding dong sometimes and be a selfish jerk and angry and, you know,

David Ask: 00:13:20

kind of the grumpy old dad thing and.

David Ask: 00:13:23

But I, I think that, that, you know, love, you know, cover

David Ask: 00:13:28

covers a multitude of sins, right?

David Ask: 00:13:30

So for dads to show up, literally just show up and to say, here is my intention.

David Ask: 00:13:38

My noble intent is to give you bedrock, is to start talking about

David Ask: 00:13:43

this stuff, is to, is to see the beauty and the courage and the.

David Ask: 00:13:48

You know, all of the wonderful characteristics that make you, you and to

David Ask: 00:13:52

start naming them and calling them out.

David Ask: 00:13:53

But guess what?

David Ask: 00:13:54

I don't really know how to do it.

David Ask: 00:13:55

And it's a little awkward because nobody taught me how, and it

David Ask: 00:13:57

can feel a little bit funny.

David Ask: 00:13:59

But I want you to know that I'm, I'm going to try and I'm never going to give up.

David Ask: 00:14:05

And if I screw up, I'm going to be the first one to say, I'm sorry.

David Ask: 00:14:08

So here's, what's really neat though.

David Ask: 00:14:11

And, you know, we live in a time and again, this is kind

David Ask: 00:14:15

of my mission here, right?

David Ask: 00:14:16

I'm, I'm, I'm creating an online community for guardians to jump

David Ask: 00:14:19

on board, to learn how to do this.

David Ask: 00:14:21

This is my entire mission in life.

David Ask: 00:14:23

And.

David Ask: 00:14:24

Um, it looks like what?

David Ask: 00:14:27

It looks like a guardian establishing these things for themselves first, right?

David Ask: 00:14:31

Because you cannot give away something you don't have.

David Ask: 00:14:34

So it's, it's understanding, well, who the heck am I?

David Ask: 00:14:38

What is it that lights me up?

David Ask: 00:14:39

What, what are my core values?

David Ask: 00:14:41

What are my, you know, like the, the top five maybe, right?

David Ask: 00:14:43

What, what are these things that I'm going to hold up in front of

David Ask: 00:14:45

me to make decisions through the matrix, my decision making matrix?

David Ask: 00:14:50

You know, what is it that, uh, what are my strengths and how

David Ask: 00:14:53

do I want to apply those things?

David Ask: 00:14:55

You know, all that stuff.

David Ask: 00:14:57

And then when you've established that for yourself, you can, you know,

David Ask: 00:15:01

go look at your kids and be like, Hey, what is it that makes you cry?

David Ask: 00:15:05

What is it that puts that lump in your throat?

David Ask: 00:15:08

What is it that makes you furious?

David Ask: 00:15:10

Like what, you know, like if somebody, is it, is it somebody being bullied?

David Ask: 00:15:13

Is it someone not living up to their potential?

David Ask: 00:15:16

I mean, it could be all kinds of things, right?

David Ask: 00:15:18

So that.

David Ask: 00:15:19

You can establish the bedrock for yourself and then guide someone into that space.

David Ask: 00:15:24

That's what causing someone to rise means.

David Ask: 00:15:27

You know, it's, it's a, uh, Yeah, you can't give away something you don't have.

David Ask: 00:15:31

So my mission in life is to help people establish their own bedrock, their own

David Ask: 00:15:36

who, their own what, their own why.

David Ask: 00:15:38

You know, maybe the how, you know, we'll see if we can get there.

David Ask: 00:15:42

I mean, yeah, there's a lot of the how actually, but, um,

David Ask: 00:15:45

is there hope for, for people?

David Ask: 00:15:47

Yes.

David Ask: 00:15:47

And you can literally, I'm talking 90 days or six months change the entire trajectory

David Ask: 00:15:55

of your life in that of your children.

Mike Forrester: 00:15:58

Yeah.

Mike Forrester: 00:15:59

That's the powerful thing.

Mike Forrester: 00:16:00

It's not only accessible from like our dad.

David Ask: 00:16:04

Yeah.

Mike Forrester: 00:16:05

I mean, till the day he passed, that was not something that.

Mike Forrester: 00:16:10

I got from him and I don't know he was in a place to give.

Mike Forrester: 00:16:14

Um, but that's where we're in a community of men.

Mike Forrester: 00:16:19

Yeah.

Mike Forrester: 00:16:19

There's that opportunity to learn from that and it pays dividends because

Mike Forrester: 00:16:25

you know, it's like our children until they're 18 there's a certain

Mike Forrester: 00:16:29

amount of, Hey, you're under my roof.

Mike Forrester: 00:16:33

You've got some controls, not the right word, but you've

Mike Forrester: 00:16:37

got some direction, right?

Mike Forrester: 00:16:40

That, that, um,

David Ask: 00:16:43

Well, I'll be honest.

David Ask: 00:16:43

I like the word control.

David Ask: 00:16:45

I mean, I really do.

David Ask: 00:16:47

And the reason is this.

David Ask: 00:16:48

It's not to be a jerk.

Mike Forrester: 00:16:50

Yeah, exactly.

David Ask: 00:16:51

If I'm the man of my home, right, I'm taking absolute

David Ask: 00:16:56

and utter responsibility as to what happens inside of those walls.

David Ask: 00:17:01

Oh, how about this, my kingdom, you know, with a little K, right?

David Ask: 00:17:05

If I'm in the room, I don't care if I'm at the, at the grocery store, you know,

David Ask: 00:17:10

or wherever I'm at, I'll be honest.

David Ask: 00:17:11

I take the approach of this is my kingdom.

David Ask: 00:17:14

My kingdom is whatever I can see, taste, touch, you know, whatever I

David Ask: 00:17:17

can influence, whatever's under my purview in the moment is my kingdom.

David Ask: 00:17:21

And if there's something that's happening inside of that kingdom, right?

David Ask: 00:17:23

If somebody is getting robbed at a gas station or whatever it is,

David Ask: 00:17:26

or, you know, some dude slaps his wife, guess who's getting involved.

David Ask: 00:17:31

Right.

David Ask: 00:17:32

I don't care if I don't know them.

David Ask: 00:17:35

My kingdom is what I can see.

David Ask: 00:17:38

So, so if my children, Dr.

David Ask: 00:17:41

Andy said, by the way, he said that he said the number one job of a father is to

David Ask: 00:17:45

remove as much uncertainty as possible.

David Ask: 00:17:50

And.

David Ask: 00:17:51

So I'm going to control laughter.

David Ask: 00:17:54

I want us to laugh a lot.

David Ask: 00:17:55

Right.

David Ask: 00:17:55

If you want to look at it like that, I want us to, I'm going

David Ask: 00:17:57

to control hugs because I'm going to be the chief hug giver.

David Ask: 00:18:01

And we're going to pray together.

David Ask: 00:18:03

We're going to say, I'm sorry, we're going to go on some vacations, right?

David Ask: 00:18:06

We're going to chop wood and haul branches and work hard around the farm here.

David Ask: 00:18:12

And so, cool.

David Ask: 00:18:14

I just feel like this idea of taking absolute responsibility for what happens

David Ask: 00:18:18

inside of my kingdom is the job of every man, and that might sound over the top,

David Ask: 00:18:23

but here, how do we, I'll say it this way, Mike, how do we know that's true?

David Ask: 00:18:26

Like, how do we know that that's a good thing?

David Ask: 00:18:28

Have you ever heard a child or a woman, for that matter, say, Boy, I sure

David Ask: 00:18:34

wish my husband didn't lead so well.

David Ask: 00:18:37

Gee, I, I wish my husband didn't, you know, tell, tell us he loved us

David Ask: 00:18:41

a lot and, you know, showed my kids how to work really hard and tuck us,

David Ask: 00:18:45

you know, tuck them into bed at night.

David Ask: 00:18:47

I sure wish that he wasn't so present and so intentional.

David Ask: 00:18:50

No, you, you will never hear that out of any child or wife for that

David Ask: 00:18:55

matter, unless they're insane.

David Ask: 00:18:57

Because when men show up with courage and kindness and virtue

David Ask: 00:19:01

and, you know, leadership.

David Ask: 00:19:03

Everybody wins.

David Ask: 00:19:05

And when men don't, everybody loses.

David Ask: 00:19:09

So by the way, I want to, I want to back up for a moment for you,

David Ask: 00:19:13

you know, how, how do you heal?

David Ask: 00:19:18

So you can't, by the way, Mike, by, you know, if you were to go through

David Ask: 00:19:22

my course, right, you can't 100 percent establish that identity.

David Ask: 00:19:29

You can't 100%, 100 percent establish authenticity.

David Ask: 00:19:34

That's a portion of it.

David Ask: 00:19:38

Those things are incomplete without relationship.

David Ask: 00:19:43

We are made for relationship.

David Ask: 00:19:47

The entire point of life, you know, is relationships.

David Ask: 00:19:51

Period.

David Ask: 00:19:52

The rest of it, I think, is just a context, right?

David Ask: 00:19:55

I mean, and those, the context is good and needs to happen, but

David Ask: 00:19:59

the entire point is relationship.

David Ask: 00:20:00

And we are, our, our sense of ourselves and everybody else, you know, is, is, um.

David Ask: 00:20:08

Discovered by yes, answering great questions, but it's enriched and

David Ask: 00:20:12

galvanized by someone else, i.

David Ask: 00:20:15

e.

David Ask: 00:20:15

a friend who quote unquote, this is john Eldridge, by the way,

David Ask: 00:20:18

wrote the book wild at heart.

David Ask: 00:20:20

He says, we can father one another.

David Ask: 00:20:23

Well, what does that's kind of a weird thing to say?

David Ask: 00:20:25

It seems a little bit sticky, right?

David Ask: 00:20:27

But what does that mean?

David Ask: 00:20:29

That means hanging out with men who are awesome, right?

David Ask: 00:20:33

Men who don't shy away from, from conversations about, you know, everything

David Ask: 00:20:37

from your own heart to spiritual things.

David Ask: 00:20:39

A man who would be willing to look at you, right?

David Ask: 00:20:42

And to say, Hey, Mike, yesterday, When you walked into the room and you said

David Ask: 00:20:46

these things or when you sent this message or whatever, I could tell that

David Ask: 00:20:51

you were drawing from a deeper well there.

David Ask: 00:20:53

And that took courage to say that or do that.

David Ask: 00:20:54

By the way, that was freaking awesome.

David Ask: 00:20:58

Right?

David Ask: 00:20:59

That's, that's exactly what.

David Ask: 00:21:01

A father and a mother for that matter, right?

David Ask: 00:21:03

What needs to say to their kids, but we change and grow, right?

David Ask: 00:21:09

The water to cause anything to grow is what?

David Ask: 00:21:12

It's love.

David Ask: 00:21:14

And love isn't, I love you and you know, nice shirt.

David Ask: 00:21:17

Love is, you know, it's love.

David Ask: 00:21:21

Holy, it's H O L Y, and it's W H O L L Y, other, holy other, it is a, it is,

David Ask: 00:21:30

you know, I believe, right, we could say it's a currency, it's a current, I

David Ask: 00:21:34

believe it's a person, but it changes us from the inside out, right, we tend to,

David Ask: 00:21:40

You know, when someone says something to that deepest place in us, you know,

David Ask: 00:21:45

with when they're making eye contact and you can tell they're like, Hey man,

David Ask: 00:21:48

I see you and what I see is awesome.

David Ask: 00:21:51

Well, guess what happens, you know, we, we start to melt inside and

David Ask: 00:21:55

the, the places that were, that are wounded or scared, they start to,

David Ask: 00:21:59

they start to kind of melt away.

David Ask: 00:22:01

And, um, the truer and truest version of ourself, you know,

David Ask: 00:22:06

who we are starts to rise.

Mike Forrester: 00:22:09

Yeah, you well up in, in a place of, uh, where it's been like a

Mike Forrester: 00:22:16

desert, I guess it's, it's almost like, uh, an oasis or an, and Getty, um, with

Mike Forrester: 00:22:22

it's water to a place that's been dry and desolate, I do want to jump back and.

Mike Forrester: 00:22:30

And maybe controls the right word for it, but it's like when our children

Mike Forrester: 00:22:36

are under the age of 18, there's a certain amount of bumpers in place, I

Mike Forrester: 00:22:44

guess, where your kids will be around.

Mike Forrester: 00:22:47

Right?

Mike Forrester: 00:22:48

But once they turn 18, man, if you have not instilled and cause them to

Mike Forrester: 00:22:53

rise up like you're talking about.

Mike Forrester: 00:22:56

I know when I got to 18, man, it was like, goodbye.

Mike Forrester: 00:22:59

And I was gone and off.

Mike Forrester: 00:23:01

Yeah.

Mike Forrester: 00:23:02

Yeah.

Mike Forrester: 00:23:02

So when they're in those, you know, those years, you know, before 18, it's

Mike Forrester: 00:23:10

important to, you know, help them to guide them, to, to let them see where

Mike Forrester: 00:23:15

we're at and how we're growing, but it's not the only time that's open.

Mike Forrester: 00:23:21

Um, To, to letting them see you walk that out and, and, you know, learn

Mike Forrester: 00:23:27

and grow, um, alongside of them.

Mike Forrester: 00:23:30

So it's much easier when they're younger, but it's not like a, Hey,

Mike Forrester: 00:23:34

this is the only window you have.

Mike Forrester: 00:23:37

Um, so

David Ask: 00:23:38

no, absolutely not.

David Ask: 00:23:39

And I, you know, it's funny.

David Ask: 00:23:41

There's a, there's a scripture that says, you know, train a

David Ask: 00:23:44

child in the way he should go.

David Ask: 00:23:45

And when he is old, he will not depart.

David Ask: 00:23:49

What does that look like?

David Ask: 00:23:50

Right.

David Ask: 00:23:50

Sometimes, you know, you get kids that.

David Ask: 00:23:53

You know, it's hormones and everything else just going absolutely bananas,

David Ask: 00:23:57

you know, when they get out of high school and they, I go off the rails

David Ask: 00:24:00

and, you know, a lot of parents are like, what the heck did I do wrong?

David Ask: 00:24:03

You know, well, truth of the matter is, is I can't tie a nice bow on, on that,

David Ask: 00:24:10

but at the same time, you know, it's, it's almost like, you know, the word, you know,

David Ask: 00:24:15

grit, you know, it's, it, it requires.

David Ask: 00:24:19

Obstacles, you know, you can't, I mean, it's like salty and sweet.

David Ask: 00:24:23

So, so when someone is, you know, going bananas and doing stupid stuff and,

David Ask: 00:24:28

you know, causing chaos and so on, you know, it's, here's a weird thing.

David Ask: 00:24:32

This is a mystery here, but it's almost like love, right?

David Ask: 00:24:35

Means more than, right?

David Ask: 00:24:37

It's, it's like, it goes back to Les Mis.

David Ask: 00:24:39

It's when, when, when someone doesn't.

David Ask: 00:24:42

Deserve it.

David Ask: 00:24:43

In fact, when they deserve, you know, punishment, love actually holds, you know,

David Ask: 00:24:52

more weight and that's putting it lightly.

David Ask: 00:24:55

It's like it holds, it becomes something that is just

David Ask: 00:24:59

absolutely just wrecks our pride.

David Ask: 00:25:03

And, and so I, I feel like the, you know, is it sad to see some people go off the

David Ask: 00:25:09

rails and do stupid stuff and make a mess?

David Ask: 00:25:12

Yeah.

David Ask: 00:25:13

And hopefully they don't take it too far.

David Ask: 00:25:15

And, you know, at the same time, I've seen so many stories.

David Ask: 00:25:19

You know, granted, I've kind of stayed in the middle of the road

David Ask: 00:25:22

most of my life, thank goodness.

David Ask: 00:25:23

But, um, I've seen so many stories of, you know, people causing a huge mess.

David Ask: 00:25:30

But then when they come back, as it were, right, they come back to love.

David Ask: 00:25:34

Their, their lives look even more powerful.

David Ask: 00:25:37

It's the theme we often see that something is better.

David Ask: 00:25:41

For having been broken, it's like muscles, right?

David Ask: 00:25:44

You tear it down, you break it and it comes back better.

David Ask: 00:25:47

It's like when, you know, you, you've got a relationship that

David Ask: 00:25:49

has been struggling and finally someone says, Hey man, I blew it.

David Ask: 00:25:54

I'm really sorry.

David Ask: 00:25:55

Would you forgive me?

David Ask: 00:25:56

Guess what?

David Ask: 00:25:57

That friendship becomes something that it could have never

David Ask: 00:26:00

been without that brokenness.

David Ask: 00:26:03

So.

David Ask: 00:26:04

You know, these, this topic, these concepts, they're, you know,

David Ask: 00:26:09

they're, they're, they're complex and they're messy and convoluted.

David Ask: 00:26:13

And sometimes they're, you know, we can't, like, can't tie a nice bow on it.

David Ask: 00:26:17

But at the same time, I think that the more we sit in the mystery, the

David Ask: 00:26:21

more we see, you know, through the.

David Ask: 00:26:23

You know, the window a bit more clearly if, you know, as to what's

David Ask: 00:26:26

happening and what's possible

Mike Forrester: 00:26:28

almost like you're talking about when the father, um, says, Hey, you

Mike Forrester: 00:26:32

know, you actually forgot this silver.

Mike Forrester: 00:26:34

It's almost like you, this may be a little too nerdy or sci fi,

Mike Forrester: 00:26:38

but it's almost like a tractor beam out of like Star Trek, right?

Mike Forrester: 00:26:41

Just drawing you in and closer.

Mike Forrester: 00:26:45

Yeah.

Mike Forrester: 00:26:45

Um, I did want to touch on one thing that, that, uh, you had mentioned

Mike Forrester: 00:26:50

earlier and then, um, also talk about the think better, um, instead of

Mike Forrester: 00:26:55

bigger and before we close out here.

Mike Forrester: 00:26:57

Sure.

Mike Forrester: 00:26:58

So you had talked about when you were doing the concert with your daughter

Mike Forrester: 00:27:02

and there's the NDA, um, almost like you're, you're glad you can't share it.

Mike Forrester: 00:27:10

Like what, what's the, the logic or the reason behind

Mike Forrester: 00:27:13

that, that puts you to say that.

David Ask: 00:27:16

Yeah, because in the past, of course, I would want to proclaim

David Ask: 00:27:20

it from the rooftops, you know, that, Hey, I got to stand with the governor.

David Ask: 00:27:24

I got to stand with, you know, whoever it was.

David Ask: 00:27:25

Right.

David Ask: 00:27:27

And because I, I just wanted, you know, I wanted the attaboy.

David Ask: 00:27:31

I wanted the applause of other people.

David Ask: 00:27:33

What's here's what's weird.

David Ask: 00:27:34

Like the place that we, you know, I've gotten to sing actually four times now.

David Ask: 00:27:39

I would rather sing, you know, there than the white house.

David Ask: 00:27:43

Like, like, you know, growing up, you know, thinking about what's possible

David Ask: 00:27:48

in my wildest dreams, never thought that, you know, that that was even

David Ask: 00:27:53

on the radar, like I would have never even put it in, in the possibilities.

David Ask: 00:27:57

So, what's really fascinating, um, is, is to, you know, in some ways,

David Ask: 00:28:05

right, be forced to not say anything, it reinforces that I don't need,

David Ask: 00:28:12

you know, the applause of others, and that applause is never enough.

David Ask: 00:28:16

And it's, and it's 99 percent of people that I don't even know that well.

David Ask: 00:28:20

Not that I don't appreciate them.

David Ask: 00:28:22

You know, if I do something great and everybody says, Hey, great job.

David Ask: 00:28:24

That's, that's always a nice thing.

David Ask: 00:28:26

It's not to, it's not that we shouldn't minimize that.

David Ask: 00:28:28

I just don't want to make a good thing an ultimate thing, you know,

David Ask: 00:28:31

because we get those things disordered and then they start crushing us and.

David Ask: 00:28:36

So, yeah, I just think it's a, it's a healthy thing to be like,

David Ask: 00:28:39

wow, I, I, I, it's a good reminder.

David Ask: 00:28:42

That's why I framed it, you know, it's just to be, no, I don't need that.

David Ask: 00:28:46

I know who I am.

David Ask: 00:28:47

I know whose I am.

David Ask: 00:28:49

And I want to have a really great impact on people around me

David Ask: 00:28:52

with no stupid strings attached.

Mike Forrester: 00:28:55

That, that makes sense.

Mike Forrester: 00:28:57

I mean, you're able to enjoy the experience, not focus on

Mike Forrester: 00:29:00

what is everybody else thinking.

Mike Forrester: 00:29:02

Instead, you're able to be present in, in the situation with your daughter.

Mike Forrester: 00:29:07

So that, that makes absolute sense.

Mike Forrester: 00:29:09

Um, so you had talked about think better, not bigger.

Mike Forrester: 00:29:14

What does that mean?

Mike Forrester: 00:29:15

And, and like, what's the power behind it?

Mike Forrester: 00:29:17

What kind of impact is it going to make in my life to think better instead of,

Mike Forrester: 00:29:22

you know, you know, Thinking bigger.

David Ask: 00:29:24

Yeah, man.

David Ask: 00:29:25

It's so here's a, it's, there's so many ways to look at, to look at this.

David Ask: 00:29:29

So, well, who is it that defines bigger?

David Ask: 00:29:32

Who is it that defines better?

David Ask: 00:29:34

You know what I mean?

David Ask: 00:29:35

It's like we, in our culture, you know, and again, that could be

David Ask: 00:29:39

everything from your family to.

David Ask: 00:29:40

You know, stuff we see on TV or the Internet or whatever people are are

David Ask: 00:29:44

telling you, as it were, what you're missing out on if you don't do this or or

David Ask: 00:29:49

who you could be if you accomplish this.

David Ask: 00:29:51

Or, you know, if you don't do this, you know, you're going to

David Ask: 00:29:54

be a loser or whatever it is.

David Ask: 00:29:56

So.

David Ask: 00:29:57

What's fascinating is, is again, when you go back to the true North Plum

David Ask: 00:30:01

Line, right, when you understand who you are, all of a sudden, you know, better

David Ask: 00:30:06

starts looking more sweeter, right?

David Ask: 00:30:08

It looks more calming.

David Ask: 00:30:09

It looks more, um, methodical.

David Ask: 00:30:14

It looks more orderly.

David Ask: 00:30:16

You know, it looks clearer.

David Ask: 00:30:17

It looks, um, Yeah, just, uh, it feels right, you know, follow the clues, whereas

David Ask: 00:30:24

quite often better or bigger looks like a bunch of stress and anxiety and overwhelm.

David Ask: 00:30:32

And, you know, I don't know how to, how to do that or get there

David Ask: 00:30:35

or whatever that looks like.

David Ask: 00:30:37

And, um, so I, I think that identity, you know, identifying authorship, right?

David Ask: 00:30:44

Well, then whatever you choose, whatever you want to describe as better or bigger.

David Ask: 00:30:48

Right.

David Ask: 00:30:48

That's you.

David Ask: 00:30:49

Not that we can't do big things, by the way.

David Ask: 00:30:50

I don't want, I don't want anybody to hear me saying that, you know, going

David Ask: 00:30:55

to Mars or swinging for the fence or something is, you know, a bad thing.

David Ask: 00:30:59

Right.

David Ask: 00:31:00

But boy, if you start doing a bigger thing, um, You know, because you

David Ask: 00:31:07

feel like you're a nobody and if you accomplish that big thing, well, guess

David Ask: 00:31:12

what, that's never going to satisfy you.

David Ask: 00:31:15

I mean, look at, I mean, look at in the past, whether it was Elvis Presley or

David Ask: 00:31:18

Michael Jackson or, you know, everybody else, like they had absolutely everything

David Ask: 00:31:23

and it, it crumbled them, you know, what we do or what we accomplish.

David Ask: 00:31:29

Is just the icing on the cake.

David Ask: 00:31:31

It's an outcropping or should be an outcropping, you know, of,

David Ask: 00:31:36

you know, our, our identity and what we, you know, what we love.

Mike Forrester: 00:31:40

So it's kind of like when we believe that we need to think bigger,

Mike Forrester: 00:31:44

that's kind of flowing from that whole deficit of knowing who, um, And like what

Mike Forrester: 00:31:52

we talked about the who and, and, and why it's flowing out of that deficit.

Mike Forrester: 00:31:56

And that's the next almost fix, I guess, right?

Mike Forrester: 00:31:59

Kind of, it

David Ask: 00:32:01

can be.

David Ask: 00:32:01

That's the thing.

David Ask: 00:32:02

That's where everybody has to make that assessment for themselves.

David Ask: 00:32:06

So, so what I think is neat is, you know, again, when you get back

David Ask: 00:32:10

to the identity and authenticity.

David Ask: 00:32:11

You tend to have self trust, right?

David Ask: 00:32:14

You're, you know, again, I, I, I view that as more of a top down spiritual paradigm,

David Ask: 00:32:20

you know, as a, as a Christian, but it's, you know, because I believe those

David Ask: 00:32:24

things have been instilled in me, right?

David Ask: 00:32:26

I didn't create me.

David Ask: 00:32:27

So I'm, I'm actually riding the sunbeam to the sun and honoring what I believe

David Ask: 00:32:32

has been created in all of us, right?

David Ask: 00:32:34

And being like, man, you're You've been created marvelously, you quit

David Ask: 00:32:39

trying so hard, you're enough, you just relax, you know, it's, you can

David Ask: 00:32:43

exhale here, you don't have to be, you know, generating anything or, you know,

David Ask: 00:32:49

creating something or whatever that is, you know, and, um, you're more than

David Ask: 00:32:53

enough and that's something that, um, you know, it takes a while to understand

David Ask: 00:32:58

that and it's hard, especially in a world where you've got 9, 000 opinions

David Ask: 00:33:01

being, you know, shot at you every day.

Mike Forrester: 00:33:04

Yeah, uh, you gotta know you, not, uh, the person that's

Mike Forrester: 00:33:11

putting out the image, um, because we're all unique and we're all going

Mike Forrester: 00:33:16

to be having different values and, and virtues and, and just ideas of what

Mike Forrester: 00:33:24

we want to be and what we want to do.

Mike Forrester: 00:33:27

And, um.

Mike Forrester: 00:33:28

Yeah, as many people as there are, here's

David Ask: 00:33:30

something that's fascinating, I think, and I've never

David Ask: 00:33:33

really, I'm going to, I'm actually going to process this out loud.

David Ask: 00:33:35

I've never really even said this, but I just kind of thought of it on the fly.

David Ask: 00:33:39

What would be the better scenario here if someone you

David Ask: 00:33:44

admire you've never met, right?

David Ask: 00:33:45

So you've got a hero on TV or whatever it is.

David Ask: 00:33:50

What would be the better scenario here?

David Ask: 00:33:52

If they walk into the room and they start asking you about your goals Oh, man.

David Ask: 00:33:57

You know, where do you want to be in 10 years?

David Ask: 00:33:59

What are your goals?

David Ask: 00:34:00

You know, all this stuff about doing, you know, so you have to feel

David Ask: 00:34:05

like you got to come up with some stuff that seems impressive for this

David Ask: 00:34:07

person that you hold on a pedestal.

David Ask: 00:34:09

Right?

David Ask: 00:34:09

Because we really ultimately we're kind of looking for the, I think it's

David Ask: 00:34:13

Tim Keller that says we're looking for the admiration of the admirable.

David Ask: 00:34:17

Well, to me, that's God, right?

David Ask: 00:34:19

I have his admiration and smile, but in human form, like we've

David Ask: 00:34:23

got heroes all over the place.

David Ask: 00:34:25

So, So again, to paint the picture, what's the more wonderful scenario here

David Ask: 00:34:30

is if the person you admire walks in and they're wearing their fancy suit and

David Ask: 00:34:33

everything and they're, you're sitting in a chair across from them and they've

David Ask: 00:34:36

got their Rolex on and whatever it is.

David Ask: 00:34:38

And they're like, Hey man, where do you want to be in five years?

David Ask: 00:34:40

What are your goals?

David Ask: 00:34:42

You know, what do you been doing the last five years?

David Ask: 00:34:43

You know what, you know, what's your routine in the morning?

David Ask: 00:34:46

Okay.

David Ask: 00:34:46

They started asking you stuff like that.

David Ask: 00:34:48

Or, right, they show up wearing jeans and a t shirt and, you know, some

David Ask: 00:34:53

silly looking old tennis shoes they just mowed the lawn in and they sit

David Ask: 00:34:57

down and they kick back in their chair, you know, and they smile.

David Ask: 00:35:02

Now what's your name?

David Ask: 00:35:04

Man, what a joy to be with you today.

David Ask: 00:35:08

You know, what is it, you know, what have you been doing lately?

David Ask: 00:35:11

You know, oh, tell me about that.

David Ask: 00:35:13

You know man i makes me think of a story i remember when my dad took us over here

David Ask: 00:35:17

and we did this you know and and and then and then they start waiting into

David Ask: 00:35:21

the weeds of help you know what do you what do you do when you're not working

David Ask: 00:35:25

you know what is it that lights you up.

David Ask: 00:35:27

And what what's your favorite movie you know they start they start looking for

David Ask: 00:35:30

clues as to you know what is it that's really true about this person's nature.

David Ask: 00:35:36

And they, they want to discover this idea of, you know, the human

David Ask: 00:35:40

being as opposed to a human doing.

David Ask: 00:35:43

And I think that, you know, to, um, to, you know, yeah, I think, I

David Ask: 00:35:49

think everybody can relate to that.

David Ask: 00:35:51

It's like, man, the person that I admire wants to get to know me and they're not

David Ask: 00:35:56

even asking me any questions of that.

David Ask: 00:35:58

I might be tempted to say something and how to impress them.

David Ask: 00:36:02

Are you kidding?

David Ask: 00:36:03

That's how you love somebody.

David Ask: 00:36:05

You know, I, I've, it's a funny thing.

David Ask: 00:36:07

I, I mean, nobody knows who I am musically.

David Ask: 00:36:10

I've, I've been fortunate to stand on some really fun stages and this and that.

David Ask: 00:36:13

And I've signed some autographs for that matter because people in the

David Ask: 00:36:15

moment thought I was famous and it's been so fun to honestly, to have a

David Ask: 00:36:20

position like that once in a while.

David Ask: 00:36:22

Because I can, you know, I can walk into a, like a high school, you know, choir

David Ask: 00:36:26

auditorium and speak to a group of people and just sit down and be one of them.

David Ask: 00:36:30

Right.

David Ask: 00:36:31

And they're thinking, man, you got to sing with the symphony and you got to do

David Ask: 00:36:34

a, I'm like, yeah, but let me tell you, you know, and I get to ask them questions

David Ask: 00:36:38

about them and what lights them up and you know, what do you, what, what do you do

David Ask: 00:36:42

for fun and, you know, be a, just be real.

Mike Forrester: 00:36:47

There's definitely a difference in

Mike Forrester: 00:36:49

somebody wanting to know you and.

Mike Forrester: 00:36:52

Know about you rather than just, um, I think it's almost like a common question

Mike Forrester: 00:37:02

or an icebreaker kind of question.

Mike Forrester: 00:37:04

Right?

David Ask: 00:37:04

Sure.

Mike Forrester: 00:37:05

Um, something different.

Mike Forrester: 00:37:06

That's personal will definitely make more of an impact and draw you in.

Mike Forrester: 00:37:11

Um, well, David, thank you so much for joining me, man.

Mike Forrester: 00:37:15

How can men connect with you outside of the podcast here?

David Ask: 00:37:19

Yeah.

David Ask: 00:37:19

So I'm hoping by July, you know, we're, we're going to have a website up.

David Ask: 00:37:24

Of course I am.

David Ask: 00:37:26

com.

David Ask: 00:37:27

You can visit David, ask david, ask.

David Ask: 00:37:29

com.

David Ask: 00:37:30

You know, if you need a thermostat guard, you can go to stat guard plus.

David Ask: 00:37:34

com.

David Ask: 00:37:34

Of course.

David Ask: 00:37:35

Um, but I, uh, you know, I, I like to end it and my, my interviews

David Ask: 00:37:39

like this is how about this?

David Ask: 00:37:42

I like to end my conversations like this.

David Ask: 00:37:43

And by the way, I really appreciate the conversational, you know, side to

David Ask: 00:37:47

this, that we had a great discussion, um, is let me know if I can do.

David Ask: 00:37:52

Anything for you.

David Ask: 00:37:54

I don't care what it is and I will do my best.

Mike Forrester: 00:37:59

Well, I appreciate it.

Mike Forrester: 00:38:01

And the book is going to be out.

Mike Forrester: 00:38:02

You said in July is what you're looking at, right?

Mike Forrester: 00:38:05

I'm,

David Ask: 00:38:05

I'm hoping, yeah, we, yeah, we may, it might be a bit later, but

David Ask: 00:38:08

we're shooting for the end of July.

Mike Forrester: 00:38:10

Cool.

Mike Forrester: 00:38:10

Well, we will be sure to have the URLs inside of the show notes, man.

Mike Forrester: 00:38:16

David, I appreciate you talking about grit, reliance, our identity,

Mike Forrester: 00:38:21

uh, getting, you know, our who, not the why is our foundation first and

Mike Forrester: 00:38:26

the value and importance of that.

Mike Forrester: 00:38:29

And then helping us to, you know, think better, not bigger, man.

Mike Forrester: 00:38:34

David, I really appreciate it.

Mike Forrester: 00:38:35

Thank you, my friend.

David Ask: 00:38:36

Pleasure.

David Ask: 00:38:36

Thanks for having me.