Episode 420
Find Your Purpose As A Man And Overcome Loneliness with Bob Wischer
In this episode, host Mike Forrester sits down with Bob Wischer, host of "Men Becoming Better Men" podcast and known as the Relationship Engineer. We talk about the critical importance of male connection and community in today's world, where isolation and disconnection have become all too common. Bob shares his personal journey through divorce, self discovery and finding purpose. He opens up about the challenges he faced and the transformative power of seeking personal growth and building meaningful relationships with other men.
We chat on how understanding your purpose can reignite your interest and excitement for life and improve your relationships. Bob shares his own journey of uncovering his life's mission and how it's shaped his approach to helping other men. One of the most crucial topics and being confronted by many men is the danger of male isolation. Bob shares sobering experiences that highlight why it's essential for men to build strong support networks and be in authentic connections with other men. If you are feeling disconnected, struggling with purpose or looking to build stronger, more fulfilling relationships, then Bob's insights and this honest conversation offer a roadmap for men to become the best versions of themselves through developing deep, meaningful connections with other men.
In this episode, you will be able to:
- Discover practical strategies to improve male mental health and wellness.
- Learn how to build healthy and supportive relationships as a man.
- Explore effective personal growth and development strategies tailored for men.
- Navigate life changes and find purpose with actionable insights.
- Uncover the benefits of joining men's support groups and communities.
The key moments in this episode are:
00:05:08 - The Importance of Male Bonding
00:12:39 - The Cost of Divorce Beyond the Money
00:18:17 - Importance of Healthy Relationships
00:28:04 - Love Languages in Relationships
00:31:37 - Impact of Self-Discovery on Marriage
00:35:49 - Discovering Purpose
00:40:30 - Importance of Community and Support
Connect with Bob Wischer
Website
http://www.menbecomingbettermen.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/bob-wischer-63151b19/
https://www.instagram.com/therelationshipengineer
YouTube
https://youtube.com/@menbecomingbettermen8163
Connect with Mike Forrester
Podcast Website
https://LivingFearlessTodayPodcast.com
Coaching Website
https://www.linkedin.com/in/hicoachmike/
Youtube
https://www.youtube.com/@hicoachmike
https://www.facebook.com/hicoachmike
https://www.instagram.com/hicoachmike
Transcript
Well, hello and welcome back.
Speaker:My friend Bob Wischer is joining me this week, Bob is the host of Men
Speaker:Becoming Better Men, um, and that's the name of his coaching program as well.
Speaker:And so Bob's got an amazing story where it's like.
Speaker:You know, things happen, you have choices.
Speaker:What do you decide to do from those choices?
Speaker:Do you decide to be passive to just let them occur?
Speaker:Or like Bob, do you decide to step up and take action and then what kind of action?
Speaker:So we're gonna get into Bob's story and, and the decisions.
Speaker:And you know, it's one of those that this kind of defines.
Speaker:The path that we take and, and the results that we get, not
Speaker:just for ourselves individually, um, but for our relationships.
Speaker:And Bob is known as the relationship engineer.
Speaker:So you know, he's, he's definitely got some experience with the, the
Speaker:relationship component there, but then also understand it goes beyond that, those
Speaker:decisions that we make, the consequences.
Speaker:How we are in life, like how we're perceived, how we show up, and, uh, just
Speaker:has kind of like a throw in that boulder.
Speaker:Well, maybe not a boulder.
Speaker:I don't know.
Speaker:Maybe you're working out in the gym way more than I am.
Speaker:Maybe it's just a big stone that's in the lake, you know, and the
Speaker:ripples that go out from it.
Speaker:So those are our decisions and, and, and the way things show up.
Speaker:So, Bob, how are you doing today, my friend?
Speaker:Ah, doing great.
Speaker:Doing great.
Speaker:It's a, it's actually a, it's actually a cinder block.
Speaker:There you go.
Speaker:We'll, we'll call the cinder block of Boulder
Speaker:and I'll, I'll explain that in a minute.
Speaker:'cause I got, I got a funny story that we didn't talk about in pre-show.
Speaker:Well go ahead right now so that we, uh, make sure we include it here.
Speaker:So I, what I try to do is when I'm, when I'm prepping for, to be on
Speaker:somebody's show, I like to listen to an episode, a past episode of theirs.
Speaker:And I just happened to pick your one from a couple weeks ago with E Eli Libby.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And he, he started off with talking about F three.
Speaker:I also do, I also do F three.
Speaker:Um, so, and, and part of what we use well, uh, if I, at least we do, and
Speaker:instead of having weights for F three, 'cause we go out, we basically go
Speaker:out in the high school parking lot and do a, a bootcamp kind of workout.
Speaker:Um, we do it here once a week that I think he mentioned they
Speaker:do it twice a week out there.
Speaker:We do it once every cure and we cinder block is our, is our weight.
Speaker:We'll do you overhead presses?
Speaker:We'll do benches we'll do.
Speaker:Lawnmower where, like a curl.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:But anyway, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a cool, uh, it's a cool thing.
Speaker:It's funny.
Speaker:And I, so I re I connected with him on, uh, Instagram, or
Speaker:not Instagram, um, LinkedIn.
Speaker:So we, we've been messaging back and forth, actually all afternoon talk, check
Speaker:it, you know, how, you know, what do you think about F three and all this stuff.
Speaker:So we, you, you, you didn't even know, but you made a. Two other people today,
Speaker:just because I was on your podcast.
Speaker:Well, Eli and Kyle are amazing men, and so you being able to connect, um,
Speaker:like if you hadn't, I would in just a heartbeat put the two of you together.
Speaker:So I'm glad you guys are connecting and yeah, you know, the, the
Speaker:whole aspect of F three with the cinder block, so that is amazing.
Speaker:So from now on, when I go to like Lowe's or Home Depot, I'm just gonna see the
Speaker:cinder blocks and think that those are boulders and Yep, there you go.
Speaker:You know,
Speaker:it's just a Wait an F three.
Speaker:Wait.
Speaker:There we go.
Speaker:Oh man.
Speaker:what does life look like professionally for you at this time?
Speaker:Oh, actually, there's.
Speaker:Part of, professional part of that.
Speaker:But one of the things I do, I also, um, I lead what, what's called a journey group.
Speaker:It's a, a discipleship program that I've been part of.
Speaker:Um, I host a men's hike every, every other week.
Speaker:It's called Forged On the Trail.
Speaker:Um, I'm also developing a new online, um.
Speaker:I also do one-on-one coaching and, um, I do that, all of that on top of a full-time
Speaker:corporate job and, uh, a real estate side hustle that I've been working on.
Speaker:So I'm do doing all kinds of stuff profess professionally and, uh, on what
Speaker:you call this, the, the stuff I don't get paid for that I do, but it's realm.
Speaker:I'll say that's the personal, which, that's the next question I usually
Speaker:ask is like, what is, what does a personal side of life look like for you?
Speaker:Yeah, that's a, it's all, all of it's just busy fi and, and trying to, um,
Speaker:find different ways to connect with men.
Speaker:Um.
Speaker:Like we kind of, well, like we kind of talked about earlier, men, men
Speaker:have, uh, a lot of stuff going on, which we, we are very disconnected.
Speaker:We have, um, a lot of things we're dealing with stress, um, relationships,
Speaker:marriages, careers, all that stuff.
Speaker:And, and it just, it, it seems to be, it seems to get so overwhelming
Speaker:for some men that they just, that's, that's all they can.
Speaker:Afford the time to do is go to work, come home, do the family
Speaker:stuff, and repeat every day.
Speaker:And what I found, uh, through my first marriage was that doing that on a
Speaker:daily basis disconnected me so badly from other men that once I did get
Speaker:to that point of where, where I 11.
Speaker:No, no marriage.
Speaker:My kids were, were graduating high school and, and going off to college and didn't,
Speaker:didn't have a lot of friends because all the friends that we had from the
Speaker:course of the marriage were kind of, kind of, she got 'em in the divorce.
Speaker:So there I am with a job.
Speaker:And not much else.
Speaker:And, and really because, and I know this is the way I look at it, not that my
Speaker:purpose of raising my children is done, because obviously that never happens,
Speaker:but for the most part, they're 18, they're going off to college, they're
Speaker:spending a lot of time building their lives, building their friendships,
Speaker:taking, you know, the classes.
Speaker:And I, I didn't have a lot to do.
Speaker:And what, what I would've.
Speaker:I, it was, it was go to work, come home, go to work, come
Speaker:home, go to work, come home.
Speaker:And that was it.
Speaker:And it got very frustrating very quickly.
Speaker:And what I, what I learned in, in the time since then is I,
Speaker:I was, I was in a danger zone.
Speaker:Um, I've actually known four men that have taken their lives.
Speaker:Um, probably likely because they got to that danger zone of, oh my God.
Speaker:Um.
Speaker:Is this all there is, you know, or, or, or what?
Speaker:You know, what's my value?
Speaker:What's my worth in life?
Speaker:Um, yeah.
Speaker:And it's just, I so, so glad, so grateful that I found what I did find and, and
Speaker:got on a tr I got a path of, of, um, personal growth and development that
Speaker:has, has led me to where I am today.
Speaker:I so grateful.
Speaker:Yeah, definitely grateful for it.
Speaker:'cause the statistics manner are not, um, at all encouraging.
Speaker:You know, we don't, we don't talk about the stuff, so we're isolated.
Speaker:We have a cycle, you know, in our head that plays almost like, you know, like
Speaker:a broken record and, you know, being detached like you've talked about.
Speaker:It's just like a, a combination, you know, like a, a stack of things
Speaker:that don't play to our benefit.
Speaker:And we can look at the statistics and see how much higher that men
Speaker:are, you know, on the suicide.
Speaker:Um mm-hmm.
Speaker:Rates than, than women are, and it's astronomical.
Speaker:Um, I wanna say like back in 2019, you know, before we went through everything
Speaker:of, of just having the world upended that it was four times higher for
Speaker:the men than it was for the women.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And, um, you know, there's, there's things that we can do along the way.
Speaker:We just have to realize that it's.
Speaker:On, on that note, Bob, as you look back at what, what went on, you know, during
Speaker:your first marriage and what you're now doing in your second marriage to stay
Speaker:connected, when you're talking to men, what are you coaching them on doing?
Speaker:Because when we say yes to something, we're saying no to something else.
Speaker:So what do you say yes to to stay connected with other men, um, without.
Speaker:You know, saying no to your marriage or relationship with your kids.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Uh, it's, it's actually, it's, it's all, it's all her.
Speaker:Actually.
Speaker:She, she endorses it.
Speaker:She supports it.
Speaker:Um, and, and that's been the complete difference in my two
Speaker:marriages is my, my first wife.
Speaker:I would, I, I, I loved playing softball.
Speaker:I loved playing hockey.
Speaker:Back in the day when I, when I was.
Speaker:She would give me nothing but grief.
Speaker:You know, why are you going to do this?
Speaker:Why, you know, why do you gotta go out for a beer after all, all of those things?
Speaker:And, and it kind of sucked me away from, you know, or guilted me
Speaker:away from that male bonding stuff.
Speaker:That, and that was, that was what buoyed me through a lot, a lot of those years.
Speaker:Um, and now my wife, she supports it.
Speaker:Because I, I've laid the groundwork that, you know, whether, whether it's my
Speaker:workouts, my hiking, um, you know, the, the groups I, I've led and lead, she knows
Speaker:that, that all fills me to where, when I get home, I'm, I'm not grumpy, I'm not
Speaker:passive, I'm not, you know, I'm, I'm.
Speaker:Do what I need to do when I get home.
Speaker:That fills her cut, you know, speaking her love languages.
Speaker:You know, the, the one big, the one big answer that I usually give guys as far
Speaker:as that marriage thing is date nights.
Speaker:I, that's my number one lesson learned from past marriage to this marriage is a
Speaker:regular scheduled, non-negotiable date.
Speaker:Night has gotta be in the game plan because you've gotta stay connected.
Speaker:And I've heard every excuse from guys, oh, well we got kids and they're too young and
Speaker:we don't have anybody to watch 'em, and or we don't have the money, or we don't.
Speaker:All the, all the excuses you could come up with about why you're not
Speaker:taking your wife on a date night, like kind like we talked about
Speaker:earlier, is it's gonna cost you later.
Speaker:Spend the money now to take her out on date night.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And I don't think we fully understand or admit to what the cost is gonna be, right?
Speaker:If I don't invest, um, in myself.
Speaker:And then also, you know, create a space for my wife to go do
Speaker:the same thing with her friends.
Speaker:'cause her relationships are just as important as ours are, as
Speaker:with, you know, with other men.
Speaker:If I'm not doing all that stuff to cultivate.
Speaker:A healthy relationship, you know, that healthy marriage and having myself
Speaker:healthy, it's gonna cost dearly.
Speaker:When you look back at, you know, your first marriage and, and kind
Speaker:of pre-divorce and post-divorce, what are some of the costs that,
Speaker:um, you know, that that entailed?
Speaker:That it included that, it's like we know there's the financial aspect.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:But that's not, that's not all.
Speaker:There is
Speaker:No, no.
Speaker:It, it took, it took me, it took me several years to recover from that.
Speaker:And, and, uh, being honest, you know, I'm actually in the minority as far
Speaker:because I left the, I left the marriage.
Speaker:I, I walked away.
Speaker:Um, I've, I've heard roughly 75, 25 where the women are the ones
Speaker:that are leading the marriage.
Speaker:So.
Speaker:But again, it still took a lot of time to recover from that mentally.
Speaker:Um, spiritually.
Speaker:Physically.
Speaker:Um, actually, I, I was very overweight at the time.
Speaker:That was part of, you know, of course the first thing you do when you get divorced.
Speaker:You gotta, you gotta lose the weight, you gotta get in shape.
Speaker:You gotta be attractive for the next one.
Speaker:Um.
Speaker:Spiritually, I, I, I didn't have a relationship with Jesus at the
Speaker:time, so that was, you know, not even in the picture at the time.
Speaker:And then mentally, of course, you know, battle and depression.
Speaker:Actually, I was on, I was medic, I was taken, I was taken antidepressants
Speaker:for at least two years before the, the marriage ended just to cope with
Speaker:all of the things that were going on.
Speaker:Um, and then to get, you know, to get off of that, get my head
Speaker:straight, get, get some guidance, and get some clarity around, you know,
Speaker:who I was and who I was being, and what I was becoming and all that.
Speaker:Um, yeah, the cost, the cost was huge on top of, you know, divorce
Speaker:or, I'm sorry, lawyer fees and, you know, split four oh and all
Speaker:that other stuff that goes with it.
Speaker:The is just cost is, is excessive and it's.
Speaker:Not necessary really.
Speaker:If you do the right things during
Speaker:and you're being, and you're being the right type of person, and, and a
Speaker:lot of that, unfortunately for guys is, is stuff that we don't even see.
Speaker:It's stuff that happened.
Speaker:I'm, I'm, I'm reading a book now called Men's Work, um, by Connor Beaton.
Speaker:So, so, so.
Speaker:Happened to us growing up, you know, whether they're small, you
Speaker:know, single time occurrence traumas or, or bigger traumas like abuse
Speaker:or, or neglect or stuff like that.
Speaker:Just so many things that we don't even under, I, I, I didn't learn until I
Speaker:was into my late forties and early fifties of all the things and why.
Speaker:In my subconscious mind from when I was even, even pre-birth.
Speaker:That's what one of my, one of the stories that I uncovered was.
Speaker:Um, and one of the things, one of the traumas that impacted me was before I
Speaker:was even born, because I was born, I was conceived prior to my parents getting
Speaker:married, they lived in a small town.
Speaker:You know, rumors get around and it was late, little, late sixties.
Speaker:It's not like, you know, today everybody would be like, oh, child outta wedlock.
Speaker:No big deal.
Speaker:Back in the late sixties was a, it was a significant deal and I, I have, have come
Speaker:to learn that, that the, the stress and things that they through at that time were
Speaker:probably causing a lot, a lot of, a lot of chaos in inside of them individually.
Speaker:Other, you know, who are we gonna live?
Speaker:Where are we gonna get a job and work, and how are we gonna afford things?
Speaker:All of that, which I did again, didn't know until, till a few years ago
Speaker:when I started studying this stuff.
Speaker:All of those, those feelings are absorbed into me as, as in utero
Speaker:through my mom and the stress and the strain and all she was experiencing.
Speaker:And they actually.
Speaker:Meaning of
Speaker:unwanted.
Speaker:Any, any number of things that, that my, my mind could have made up at that point.
Speaker:And when, when I fast forward all those fears and all those things through
Speaker:my entire life, it's like, oh, I can see why this, you know, why this
Speaker:happened in seventh grade and why this happened in 10th grade, and why this
Speaker:happened in my marriage and why I had to, you know, why I ended up filing
Speaker:for divorce and all these things.
Speaker:I took my first breath.
Speaker:It's insane.
Speaker:It's insane.
Speaker:there's a number of of men that I've coached and I know for
Speaker:myself as well, like my parents, um, actually verbalized it.
Speaker:You know, you weren't planned, you weren't a mistake.
Speaker:Yeah, we weren't really looking to have you.
Speaker:It's like, thanks.
Speaker:Yeah, thanks a lot.
Speaker:I feel so elevated, loved and included.
Speaker:Those things.
Speaker:Those things.
Speaker:Instantly we make a meaning of those.
Speaker:Two years old or 10 years old, whatever.
Speaker:And you, you go through your life living that story that of course is not true.
Speaker:And it, it messes up, it can mess up almost every area of your life.
Speaker:when you've got somebody, you know, you've got a man that's sitting there.
Speaker:And saying, Hey Bob, I'm not plugged in.
Speaker:Or The people that I'm plugged in with aren't healthy.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:You can tell that they're not the people that are gonna help you to grow
Speaker:and become who you really wanna be.
Speaker:They're just convenient.
Speaker:They're there.
Speaker:How do you help men to figure out how to reach out in a
Speaker:healthy way, and then how to be.
Speaker:You know, kind of, uh, nurturing and, and growing those relationships to
Speaker:have that circle around you that it's like, Hey, I'm, I'm going through
Speaker:this really challenging thing.
Speaker:I need some support.
Speaker:I need some encouragement.
Speaker:Or when you're like, dude, I just landed this promotion to be able
Speaker:to celebrate with you, how do you go about finding those men?
Speaker:Um, that's, that's one of the.
Speaker:there's, there's multiple ways, but, um, just getting out and, and
Speaker:kind of putting your ego aside, um, putting your fears aside.
Speaker:Uh, so for the last, well, I've, I've.
Speaker:I've handed it off now, but six years ago I created a group, the, the original
Speaker:group of men becoming Better Men.
Speaker:Um, it was an in-person meeting and we created it, uh, on the Meetup app, and
Speaker:that's where the majority of the guys came from for, um, most, most of the time.
Speaker:I basically for, for me, it was putting it out there and giving a space and
Speaker:that that's, you know, I guess to an, to answer your question, it's,
Speaker:you gotta find, you gotta go find it.
Speaker:I, if you realize that you're in that place where, you know,
Speaker:you're either isolated or you're hanging out with the wrong people.
Speaker:The right people.
Speaker:Um, looking in, looking into a group, a group like that, I know there's, there's
Speaker:not a lot of, uh, there aren't a lot of local ones, but I do hear every once
Speaker:in a while of, you know, guys that have been in different groups around the
Speaker:country, there's a lot of, there's a lot of virtual, a lot of virtual options.
Speaker:Um, sometimes that works, sometimes, at least again, for me, it doesn't.
Speaker:It works when you're the guy facilitating the, the other guys getting together.
Speaker:But as a, as a participant, um, I've been participant in some virtual
Speaker:groups that it just, I, I, I'm more of the type of person that I like to be
Speaker:physically connected and be able to, you know, look in the eye and stuff.
Speaker:Um, yeah, just.
Speaker:You gotta seek it out.
Speaker:And there's, there's no magic.
Speaker:I, I, unfortunately, I haven't found the magic way yet to just snap your fingers
Speaker:and, and have three guys show up at your front door and say, Hey, let's, let's
Speaker:hang out and talk about important stuff.
Speaker:Um, if I do that, I will, I could probably make a lot of money 'cause
Speaker:that's what I think guys need.
Speaker:Um, but yeah, it's, it's.
Speaker:Having, having the courage and having the, the fortitude to
Speaker:just say, I'm gonna do this.
Speaker:And, and over the years we have had guys show up, um, in our circle
Speaker:that they, they're, you could just tell they're, they're at wit's end.
Speaker:Um, yeah.
Speaker:You know, guys, guys who have lost their fathers early in
Speaker:life and didn't have that.
Speaker:Guys that are battling addiction, just every, every different type.
Speaker:And it's just, again, it just, it depends on the person and what you
Speaker:need, but you, you've gotta seek it out.
Speaker:Um, find it one, find it one way or another.
Speaker:And, uh, but it, but it's definitely, uh, something absolutely imperative.
Speaker:I guess that's another one we kind of talked about at the beginning is F three.
Speaker:Um, is a, is a great way to get to meet guys.
Speaker:Um, they have 'em all over the country, um, like at F three Nation com, they
Speaker:even have a little map on there.
Speaker:You can click on the map, you can find, um, the closest one to you.
Speaker:Um, and f for, for those that don't know what F three is, it's, it's
Speaker:a workout, it's workout for men.
Speaker:Um, they sh, you know, they do them multiple times a week.
Speaker:In, in every area of the country.
Speaker:And that's, that's one way, uh, well, I'm here in, uh, in a suburb of Detroit
Speaker:and we have, we have, uh, I think we have six or seven different, um, cities
Speaker:around that, uh, the, the area here that have that host a, a group, um, yeah.
Speaker:And do, doing stuff like that, just getting outta your comfort zone and being.
Speaker:You do, you get acclimated to it and, and you start building some
Speaker:friendships and you know, go, go for coffee after with the guys or whatever.
Speaker:Um, it's just, yeah, it's you, you gotta get connected.
Speaker:Bottom line.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I think it's one of those of being patient.
Speaker:Um, you know, it's, it's almost like trying to, you know, find a girlfriend.
Speaker:It takes time.
Speaker:You don't just walk up and go, Hey, you wanna get married?
Speaker:Let's, let's go.
Speaker:Um, you know, it's like some time, some investment.
Speaker:Um, and one thing I know that I didn't expect.
Speaker:Bob was, when I was looking for those relationships and learning that
Speaker:processes, sometimes I needed to be the one to initiate and be vulnerable
Speaker:and say like, Hey, I am struggling.
Speaker:Because there's, there's almost like this fear of, well,
Speaker:what if Bob doesn't struggle?
Speaker:What if Bob, you know, diminishes what I'm feeling and what I'm going through?
Speaker:Hey, I'm struggling with this.
Speaker:Yeah, almost like, Hey Bob, I'm, I'm struggling with finances, and you look
Speaker:at me like, Mike, what kind of an idiot are you that you're struggling with?
Speaker:Finances that's super easy, you know, um, people, you know, just
Speaker:downplaying what you go through.
Speaker:It's like I didn't understand that sometimes I was going to be
Speaker:the one to put my neck out there.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And just because, you know, if I did that with you and you didn't respond properly,
Speaker:doesn't mean that every other guy is.
Speaker:So I need to take it on account by count basis and be willing
Speaker:to put myself out there.
Speaker:Is that kind of what you've seen as well?
Speaker:Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker:The way.
Speaker:Quote that he uses.
Speaker:It's, uh, it's something, you know, get, get out there, be out there.
Speaker:Um, test, test for interest is a part of it.
Speaker:Like, so like if we, if we were to meet at a coffee shop, Hey, how you doing?
Speaker:You know, just some kind of one opening liner and if you engage with me.
Speaker:That's like, that opens it or says you, you wanna be friendly with and you wanna
Speaker:have a con maybe have a conversation.
Speaker:So continue that conversation.
Speaker:And, and he's so walking through open doors.
Speaker:So when you open the door, walk through, you know, continue to walk
Speaker:through it and, and engage with it.
Speaker:'cause you know, a lot, a lot of times, and, and I experience
Speaker:this all the time, I'll go to the gym, got their headphones in.
Speaker:That, that's just one that's the biggest indication to me.
Speaker:Like, I just wanna be in my world, just leave me in my isolation, I'm happy.
Speaker:And, uh, it, it's frustrating sometimes 'cause you know, you want, you want,
Speaker:it's one of the few places you really do anymore interact with people or can.
Speaker:Um, and it just, it's, it's, it's weird when you try to
Speaker:talk to somebody when they.
Speaker:I will encourage you on this one, Bob.
Speaker:When you're going to the gym and you see somebody like.
Speaker:I put the headphones on to stay focused on like what I'm doing.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And sometimes I really don't care for the music that the gym is playing.
Speaker:But yeah.
Speaker:If I see you working out near me and you are aware of your
Speaker:surroundings, I'll nod at you.
Speaker:'cause if I go, Hey Bob, how's it going?
Speaker:You have your headphones on, you're not gonna hear me.
Speaker:But if I do something body language wise.
Speaker:Yeah,
Speaker:good point.
Speaker:And you're open to it.
Speaker:You'll engage.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:There's that possibility.
Speaker:Not everybody's going to, it's okay.
Speaker:It's okay.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Some people are, some people want it, some people don't.
Speaker:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker:And it may just,
Speaker:and and, and don't take it personally when they don't.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:That.
Speaker:That was a struggle.
Speaker:Oh my gosh.
Speaker:I would've looked at, Hey, Bob didn't respond.
Speaker:Oh, I must be something about me rather than just, Hey, this May.
Speaker:Right, exactly.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:You know, it's like I took a shower before I came in.
Speaker:I promise I smell okay.
Speaker:Um, you know, but it's, it's one of those, I don't know what's going on in your life.
Speaker:I don't know how you prefer to work out.
Speaker:There's gonna be other opportunities, so just keep taking them one at a time
Speaker:and, uh, don't, don't take it personal.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:That was a big downfall for me.
Speaker:So I, I fully get that and agree.
Speaker:Well, as far as like in, you know, now you're like the
Speaker:relationship engineer, right?
Speaker:How can we as men, um, you know, invest into.
Speaker:You know, into that relationship.
Speaker:How can we invest in it in a healthy way that doesn't, um, draw or take
Speaker:away diminish from who we are or what we have in a negative way?
Speaker:You know what I mean?
Speaker:Like, you're setting yourself up for, um, you know, being drained or, you know,
Speaker:not just having that healthy connection.
Speaker:How.
Speaker:Um, suggestions for that is love languages.
Speaker:Um, again, something I did not know when I was married the first time,
Speaker:'cause if I had, I think things would've gone a lot differently.
Speaker:But, um, what I've learned with, with my second marriage is, you know,
Speaker:what, what hers are and what mine are and how those play to each other.
Speaker:So my wife is very much words of affirmation.
Speaker:Um, all I gotta do is say good morning, beautiful.
Speaker:And she, she lights, lights right up and has a wonderful day.
Speaker:Um, for her.
Speaker:She knows that I'm physical touch, so if she gives me, gives me a little
Speaker:back rub, um, you know, at night before I go to bed, she knows that
Speaker:makes me happy and I'm good to go.
Speaker:So, um, just being able to know what those things are about each other
Speaker:and, and, and working into them.
Speaker:Um, probably what,
Speaker:what the, the flip side of that is the example of my first marriage,
Speaker:again, phy me being physical touch.
Speaker:My wife, my ex-wife was very anti touch.
Speaker:She didn't like to be touched, she didn't like to touch.
Speaker:So here I'm trying to physically in.
Speaker:Be with her physically, because I want the touch constantly.
Speaker:And she's like, why are you touching me all the time and not understanding
Speaker:that, that that's my love.
Speaker:Ang is how I get what I need.
Speaker:And here I'm trying to, to do that to her and she's being repulsed by it
Speaker:because she doesn't want that at all.
Speaker:So when you're disconnected, that's what happens.
Speaker:It's, it's one that understanding what your love language is and
Speaker:what your wife's love language is, is very important because.
Speaker:It's almost like this sliding scale, right?
Speaker:You are thinking, Hey, I'm depositing a dollar.
Speaker:Every time I touch my wife, I, I am putting myself out there and she's
Speaker:looking at, Hey, you're withdrawn.
Speaker:50 cents
Speaker:your bank account's going down, not up.
Speaker:And,
Speaker:and, and
Speaker:then we
Speaker:wonder why we don't get, you know, the intimacy part of it 'cause
Speaker:you, my accounts, my accounts go down, I'm thinking, I'm doing here.
Speaker:And she's down, down here.
Speaker:And we're, we're definitely down the same.
Speaker:Yeah, communication.
Speaker:Um, so different in, in what we are perceiving and what
Speaker:they're actually receiving.
Speaker:I mean, it's, it, it's so vital and, uh, that's where it's like,
Speaker:you know, understanding who you are, who your partner is.
Speaker:Um, man, there's a value there.
Speaker:Absolute.
Speaker:Have you found in your current marriage that in understanding
Speaker:who you are, has laid a different foundation in your marriage?
Speaker:Because it's like, I've seen men, and I tried this as well, Bob, where I was like,
Speaker:I'm gonna have an outstanding marriage.
Speaker:I'm going to invest in my marriage.
Speaker:And yet I was still in that unhealthy place.
Speaker:It changed things for a while.
Speaker:But it didn't create a consistent, you know, supportive, healthy marriage.
Speaker:Is that something that you know, you've experienced differently
Speaker:in your current marriage?
Speaker:Is you knowing who you are has changed the, the game in your marriage?
Speaker:Yeah,
Speaker:absolutely.
Speaker:I actually, uh, that's kind of the perfect story for, for the situation.
Speaker:So I've been with my, my now wife, we've only been married for going
Speaker:on six, seven, almost seven years.
Speaker:But we've been together for 10 or so.
Speaker:Um, but that first, that first couple years, um, again, I was
Speaker:healing from the first marriage.
Speaker:I was still on the self-discovery, you know, just had, just started by, you
Speaker:know, working with a coach and, and getting my own act together, trying to
Speaker:figure out what was going on and, um.
Speaker:And then it wasn't even until, um, probably a year or so after that that
Speaker:I actually went through, um, some deeper coaching where I found that,
Speaker:that the item I talked about earlier with the, with the situation, with my,
Speaker:my birth story and um, and, and then that really opened up a lot of doors
Speaker:for me to be able to understand again, who I was being, who I was becoming.
Speaker:Um, how I was showing up in the marriage and all that stuff.
Speaker:Um, a lot, a lot of learning and growth and, and from, from listening to podcasts
Speaker:and reading books on relationships and all that stuff that I did through that period
Speaker:of time and understanding, you know, what, what my wife needs, what I need, um, and
Speaker:how to make those two things me together.
Speaker:Um, yeah, it.
Speaker:A huge part of our story and, and figuring out and what I missed at one point.
Speaker:Um, couple years into our relationship, we actually broke up for a while
Speaker:because I wa I was kind, I was in a place where I was, I was struggling
Speaker:with relationship with my son.
Speaker:Decided he didn't wanna come.
Speaker:We had a, we had, it was his senior year of high school.
Speaker:He didn't wanna come and have, have his, we had every other weekend period
Speaker:time, um, with him and he didn't wanna come stay with us anymore when that was
Speaker:supposed to be my time to be with him.
Speaker:Um, and I didn't wanna spend it.
Speaker:I had already missed out on a lot of things and I didn't,
Speaker:his whole senior year of not.
Speaker:We actually broke out.
Speaker:We broke it off for a while.
Speaker:We didn't see each other for six months.
Speaker:And through that period of time, I is when I really was ta, you know, 'cause I had,
Speaker:I had, I didn't have a relationship, so I was totally focusing on myself and my
Speaker:personal development, my personal growth.
Speaker:It took, it took.
Speaker:What, what I was doing wrong and what, how I was, how I was being, and how
Speaker:I was acting and, um, and all that.
Speaker:And I al uh, unfortunately, fortunately I didn't lose her, but I
Speaker:almost did because I, I let her go.
Speaker:But, um, came, came to my senses and we, we started dating again and,
Speaker:um, kinda lived separately for about six months until my son graduated.
Speaker:Once graduated.
Speaker:Um.
Speaker:You know, we, we got, we moved back in together and then a year or so after
Speaker:that ended up going through the, going through and, and getting hitched again.
Speaker:So, but yeah, it was, it was a big part of the story, big part of,
Speaker:you know, the healing and, and the discovery that I had to do to get
Speaker:where I, where I was supposed to be.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And that self-awareness and self discovery is something that.
Speaker:I don't think we really understand how to get there or what it does for us.
Speaker:And you know, I, I know for myself and other men that I've talked
Speaker:with, it's like, Bob, I don't, I don't know what my purpose is.
Speaker:Like what does that look like?
Speaker:And do I have a purpose or.
Speaker:You know, like the messages that we talked about, um, you know, being
Speaker:a mistake or unplanned fit in to that then, and it's almost like,
Speaker:Bob, do I even have a purpose?
Speaker:Like, okay, I don't feel like a man, but now do I not even have a purpose?
Speaker:Like how low do I go on this chart?
Speaker:Um, as you were going through, you know, like post divorce and, and
Speaker:reclaiming, you know, discovering your awareness and reclaiming who.
Speaker:Did you like discover your purpose or was that something you already
Speaker:knew and just weren't working in it?
Speaker:Like what did that look like for you?
Speaker:No, actually that was the, um, a benefit of my first coaching program.
Speaker:I went through part of it, um, very early on.
Speaker:There was an exercise that I did, um, that went, went through this
Speaker:whole long list of, of questions and, and things like, you know what your
Speaker:values and as you know, what did what?
Speaker:Um, things like that.
Speaker:There's a whole, whole bunch of questions in there.
Speaker:None of them are coming to me off the top of my head, but the, the gist of it
Speaker:was you answer all these questions and at, at certain points it's like, you
Speaker:know, do you see trends or threads in the answers that you've given to this point?
Speaker:And, uh, one, well, one of 'em was like, um, uh, what of
Speaker:your three favorite movies?
Speaker:One of my favorite movies is Top.
Speaker:That and a couple of the other answers, like, like when I grew up,
Speaker:when I, when I, when I was growing up, I wanted to be a fireman.
Speaker:So again, somebody that helps people, somebody that is a, you know, has a hu
Speaker:somewhat of a hero complex, top gun, hero complex, you know, type of, type of thing.
Speaker:And, and where that, those threads in those type of
Speaker:purpose.
Speaker:You know, discover, you know, what, what's in it for themselves.
Speaker:And that, that ended, I ended up, long story short, that whole um, exercise that
Speaker:I went through, my purpose statement ended up being, um, to express and inspire love
Speaker:and wellness within myself and to others.
Speaker:And that's basically been the rock that I've been standing on for the past.
Speaker:Uh.
Speaker:Guide, guide and send me in the right direction of what it is I wanna do.
Speaker:And I, I just, I can't stand to see, you know, I, I mentioned, you know,
Speaker:knowing four men that have committed suicide before, I can't, I can't stand,
Speaker:I can't stand hearing about another one.
Speaker:Every one of them tears me up.
Speaker:I, uh, the la the, one of the more recent ones was.
Speaker:We, I'll call it a Sunday school course, just so people get what I'm,
Speaker:the gist of what I'm talking about.
Speaker:But we were teaching this course and we were, part of it was to do, um,
Speaker:Enneagram, um, personality profile.
Speaker:And this particular man, he, he was a number seven, which is a, somebody that's
Speaker:very boisterous and somebody that's kind of out there and wants to be seen and
Speaker:very charismatic and, and out there.
Speaker:And
Speaker:since he, since his passing, every time my wife and I taught that, that course,
Speaker:and we were going through that section where we would talk about, we, we,
Speaker:because we would go through with the rest of the class and we'd talk through
Speaker:all the numbers at the Enneagram, and every time that number seven hit the
Speaker:screen, I just had to stop and pause.
Speaker:And it happened two or three times.
Speaker:Um.
Speaker:Just the fact that he, he felt so lost and so disconnected and, and we had
Speaker:been, we hadn't been working together professionally, but we had been talking
Speaker:and, um, so I kind of knew what his situation was and, but I just, I,
Speaker:I can't stand to hear another one.
Speaker:And I tears me up when I, every time I.
Speaker:It's a temporary solution to, it's a permanent solution.
Speaker:To a temporary problem.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And yeah, and, and there's no problem that, that I feel can't be solved by
Speaker:sitting down with somebody that cares and just having a, a deep conversation.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:That's where the community is like having, having a circle of men.
Speaker:That can support you, come alongside you, validate and maybe like, you know, I don't
Speaker:know about you, Bob, I have blind spots.
Speaker:There are things I'm clueless on, but having men who can see it, you
Speaker:know, it's like there's that whole story about trying to lead, read the
Speaker:label from the inside of the jar.
Speaker:You know, it's like, um, yeah, that I've got those blind spots, I'm not.
Speaker:I'm, I'm not aware.
Speaker:I'm just not seeing it.
Speaker:And other people are just like, you know, other men are
Speaker:like, dude, I, I'm seeing it.
Speaker:That's the neon lights.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Clueless.
Speaker:Absolutely clueless.
Speaker:But that's like the benefit of the relationships and you know, like
Speaker:having that purpose that you've talked about, knowing that purpose can help
Speaker:us to not feel so lost and isolated and detached and just like drifting.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:It gives you, it gives you that zest for life is what it really does.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I mean, I, I spend a good part of every day just brainstorming, you
Speaker:know, how, how can I be, how can I be better at what I'm doing?
Speaker:How can I help help men see that, you know, yes, okay, you're going
Speaker:through a depression, or you're having struggles with your wife or you're.
Speaker:Your job's going sideways, whatever it is.
Speaker:Or, or if you're a business owner and you can't seem to figure out, you know,
Speaker:how, how do I align my ethics with my business and make money and all that
Speaker:stuff at the same time, there's all those things that are spinning around our heads.
Speaker:We, we try to take 'em all on ourselves and, and it, it.
Speaker:To sit with somebody and collaborate with them and talk to them and, and
Speaker:like you said, get other opinions and, and other viewpoints and help some have
Speaker:somebody help see your blind spots.
Speaker:It's so invaluable.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Well, Bob, dude, I want to thank you for coming and sharing like the
Speaker:encouragement, the reality, you know, how impactful things can be when we.
Speaker:Don't take action when we don't step into a community.
Speaker:You know, going a lone wolf is sometimes easier, but you know, if that was
Speaker:the way things were supposed to be, you wouldn't see a pack of wolves.
Speaker:Right, exactly.
Speaker:It's, there is, there is, uh.
Speaker:Strength in being able to rely on somebody else.
Speaker:And you know, like you said as well, having your purpose, that clarity, um,
Speaker:being able to invest in your relationships in a stronger, more impactful and powerful
Speaker:way when we're in a healthy place.
Speaker:So, you know, save our energy instead of trying to build up
Speaker:something when we're on quicksand.
Speaker:Make sure we're on rock, you know, and then work, you know,
Speaker:build ourselves, then build stuff.
Speaker:So Bob, I wanna thank you very much for everything you've shared today.
Speaker:How can guys outside of the podcast reach out and connect with you?
Speaker:Yeah, um, probably the, the primary two ways.
Speaker:Um, my website, www men becoming better men.
Speaker:Contact me through there.
Speaker:Um, and then Instagram is probably the next easiest place.
Speaker:Um, just search at the relationship engineer.
Speaker:Very cool.
Speaker:Bob, thank you again my friend.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Thank you for having me, ab Great, great conversation.
Speaker:My pleasure.
