Episode 429

Why Asking for Help Is the Most Masculine Thing You Can Do With Troy Karnes

Published on: 25th September, 2025

True resilience isn't about never falling down, it's about building systems that keep you sane when life unexpectedly hits you. sit down with Troy Karnes, author of "No Silver Bullet," who shares his journey from the glamorous world of whiskey sales to getting kicked out by his wife, entering rehab and then facing a cancer diagnosis just 98 days into sobriety. Troy's story proves that asking for help isn't a sign of weakness - it's the most mature decision a man can make.

Troy reveals how the highlights of his career - traveling to the coolest restaurants, working with craft bartenders, living what everyone thought was the dream life, while great was actually costing him deeply behind the scenes. Getting on planes hungover became his norm until his responsibilities as a father of two collided with his inability to change with his changing circumstances. His wife's ultimatum became the catalyst for the hardest and yet best decision of his life.


Your transformation doesn't end when you do the hard work - sometimes life tests your new systems and beliefs immediately. Troy demonstrates how the daily habits and tracking systems he learned in rehab became his lifeline when cancer struck, proving that the tools for staying sober are actually tools for staying human. His HALT framework (Hungry, Angry, Lonely, Tired) and 90-second daily check-ins show how simple systems can prevent complex problems.


In this episode, you will be able to:

• Master the art of asking for help as a sign of masculinity and maturity rather than weakness

• Build proactive systems using the HALT framework to prevent poor decision-making

• Create sustainable tracking habits through 90-second daily check-ins that reveal patterns

• Develop genuine connections by calling friends regularly instead of relying on social media

• Navigate major life changes by changing yourself when your circumstances change around you


The key moments in this episode are:

00:03:15 - The Glamorous Job That Was Actually a Nightmare Behind the Scenes

00:08:30 - When His Wife Said "You Can't Be Here Tonight"

00:12:45 - Why Asking for Help Is Actually a Sign of Masculinity and Maturity

00:18:20 - Getting Cancer 98 Days Into Sobriety

00:22:40 - The HALT Framework for Better Decision Making

00:28:15 - His 90-Second Daily Check-In System

00:33:50 - Why He Uses a 4-Point Scale for Everything

00:38:25 - The Loneliness Epidemic and Mortality Statistics

00:42:30 - How Sleep Affects Everything From Weight to Emotions


Connect with Troy Karnes

Website

https://troykarnes.com/


LinkedIn

https://www.linkedin.com/in/troykarnes/


Instagram

https://www.instagram.com/troykarnes/


Connect with Mike Forrester

Podcast Website

https://LivingFearlessTodayPodcast.com

 

Coaching Website

https://www.hicoachmike.com/

 

LinkedIn

https://www.linkedin.com/in/hicoachmike/

 

Youtube

https://www.youtube.com/@hicoachmike

 

Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/hicoachmike

 

Instagram

https://www.instagram.com/hicoachmike


Transcript
Mike Forrester:

Well, hello and welcome back my friend.

Mike Forrester:

This week I'm joined by Troy Karnes and Troy.

Mike Forrester:

You know, you can look at at other men and think that, man,

Mike Forrester:

that dude just has life nailed.

Mike Forrester:

But the problem is we're looking at other people's lives from the

Mike Forrester:

outside, and when we're looking at our life, we know the behind the scenes.

Mike Forrester:

And it's one of those, you're comparing apples to oranges, but it's almost like

Mike Forrester:

you're comparing apples to watermelons.

Mike Forrester:

There's such a difference of what's portrayed on the outside man.

Mike Forrester:

Troy took the hard life, the hard decisions rather, and uh, turned things

Mike Forrester:

around and then got hit by cancer on the other side, and it's one of

Mike Forrester:

those, none of us want to hear that.

Mike Forrester:

Dude, rather than just kind of pulling away, Troy doubled down

Mike Forrester:

and kept working at it and is now in a completely different place.

Mike Forrester:

And what I hope that you'll take from this is that, you know,

Mike Forrester:

even when those, those hard.

Mike Forrester:

Events, those hard situations come in life.

Mike Forrester:

It doesn't mean it's over.

Mike Forrester:

It doesn't mean that it's time to just, you know, throw up our hands.

Mike Forrester:

In fact, it's time to really solidify and stand in the moment,

Mike Forrester:

and we're gonna see that from, from Troy and how he made the decision.

Mike Forrester:

He took action and the results had followed.

Mike Forrester:

So excited to get into our conversation here today.

Mike Forrester:

Troy, how are you doing today, my friend?

Troy Karnes:

I'm great today.

Troy Karnes:

It's been, it's been an amazing day so far.

Mike Forrester:

Awesome.

Mike Forrester:

Yeah, I'm like, it's been not too long here, uh, that you just had your,

Mike Forrester:

your book launch and so along with the book you had the workbook as well.

Mike Forrester:

So, um, you know, that's, that's a huge win because like so many other things,

Mike Forrester:

man, people will talk about stuff, but.

Mike Forrester:

Maybe not take action or take full action.

Mike Forrester:

It's something you saw through to completion.

Mike Forrester:

So let's start out with, you know, what's the book and like, what

Mike Forrester:

caused you to write the book?

Troy Karnes:

Sure.

Troy Karnes:

Uh, yeah.

Troy Karnes:

So book is the, I like to say it's the, the stories, the systems and the

Troy Karnes:

science, uh, that I used to keep myself sane and sober when I got my cancer

Troy Karnes:

diagnosis, 98 days into my sobriety.

Troy Karnes:

It's a third memoir and a third research, and then a third like very

Troy Karnes:

actionable tactics that people could start folding into their lives every day.

Troy Karnes:

And it's really just like, it's what?

Troy Karnes:

It's what I do.

Troy Karnes:

Every day.

Troy Karnes:

And it's, I mean, these are just the exact tools that I have used now for,

Troy Karnes:

you know, what going on for, oh, yeah.

Troy Karnes:

More than, more than four years now.

Troy Karnes:

And, uh, I do remember what date it was.

Troy Karnes:

Um, but it's, uh, yeah, it's, it's really that, it's, it's

Troy Karnes:

stories, science and systems.

Mike Forrester:

And so No Silver Bullet is the name of the book.

Mike Forrester:

Um.

Mike Forrester:

And so let's dig into some of what you went through that then

Mike Forrester:

gave you the way to stay sane.

Mike Forrester:

You talked about Yeah.

Mike Forrester:

You know, to really reclaim your life from a different perspective.

Mike Forrester:

Right.

Mike Forrester:

So, um, man, you, you started out, you know, working in wine, moved into working,

Mike Forrester:

uh, with whiskey transition there.

Mike Forrester:

Troy from the outside, you know, you're traveling, you're, you know, getting to

Mike Forrester:

go to some of the best restaurants, man.

Mike Forrester:

Some, some of them that would just be like, dude, Troy,

Mike Forrester:

take me as your plus one.

Mike Forrester:

Right.

Mike Forrester:

And so then you're also working with, um, craft bartenders, some of the best

Mike Forrester:

that there are, but you know, it's.

Mike Forrester:

The risk of looking at somebody else's life from the outside is we're not seeing

Mike Forrester:

everything, uh, that's actually going on.

Mike Forrester:

Kind of take us behind the scenes of what was going on and then how that

Mike Forrester:

led you to a place that wasn't, you know, like what everybody's seeing.

Mike Forrester:

Like that castle in the sky that was actually, um, you know,

Mike Forrester:

more harmful than good for you.

Troy Karnes:

Sure.

Troy Karnes:

I mean, even to, to highlight that a little bit, I got into that industry.

Troy Karnes:

Uh, I lived in Washington DC and we were there because my wife got into grad school

Troy Karnes:

and we would hang out with a bunch of her grad school friends and they were like,

Troy Karnes:

you know, we're like in a cool city.

Troy Karnes:

We were like, everybody wanted my job.

Troy Karnes:

you know, I was covering everything from, call it Boston to Miami.

Troy Karnes:

And yeah, my job was to essentially like, yeah, go to the coolest spots in

Troy Karnes:

town and convince them to buy my whiskey and to, and then to use it, right.

Troy Karnes:

Sounds very glamorous, but there was a meme.

Troy Karnes:

There was a meme going around.

Troy Karnes:

Back, back then, and it was maybe like a nine panel.

Troy Karnes:

And it was something like what my, what my friends think I do,

Troy Karnes:

what my mom thinks I do What?

Troy Karnes:

And they were all different.

Troy Karnes:

And it's like what I actually do, and it's like what I actually do is

Troy Karnes:

get on planes hungover all the time.

Troy Karnes:

that reality was certainly not anything that you see on social media or that

Troy Karnes:

I talked about with my friends or family or anybody else I would talk to.

Troy Karnes:

And you're on a plane, right?

Troy Karnes:

It's like if you run into somebody, you know, like very rare.

Troy Karnes:

So it was just me, right?

Troy Karnes:

That is the internal that you were talking about.

Troy Karnes:

And it was a lot of that.

Troy Karnes:

It was a lot about, yeah.

Troy Karnes:

Getting on a plane hung over and trying to sleep for however long the

Troy Karnes:

flight lasted because it was the most sleep I was gonna get for a while.

Troy Karnes:

So, yeah, that was, that was the reality of that.

Troy Karnes:

But I hate to paint it sort of like all in a negative light because.

Troy Karnes:

I mean, it was, it was amazing.

Troy Karnes:

I met friends that I'm still great friends with.

Troy Karnes:

I mean, I have a, a cool network across the country still that I made

Troy Karnes:

back then, and that's, you know, I mean, I, I started doing that,

Troy Karnes:

what, 15 years ago or something, and, and I still have really close

Troy Karnes:

friends that I made in that industry.

Troy Karnes:

And it's, you know, hospitality, you meet people, make friends and stuff like that.

Troy Karnes:

And yeah, it's, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna lie and say that it sucks to go.

Troy Karnes:

Hang out at the coolest places around.

Troy Karnes:

It was, it was amazing.

Troy Karnes:

Uh, but yeah, there was just a whole other side to it as well.

Troy Karnes:

Right.

Troy Karnes:

It's not all the highlight reels.

Troy Karnes:

It's also, you know, it's, yeah.

Troy Karnes:

It's also the, you know, the kind of the, the grim parts or the, you know,

Troy Karnes:

the unglamorous or the difficult things that just don't get shared as much.

Mike Forrester:

And I think that's the thing that, um, we can miss is looking

Mike Forrester:

at somebody else's life, you know, like I've alluded to and, and spoken to

Mike Forrester:

is I'm seeing Troy your life from the outside, whereas I'm seeing the inside

Mike Forrester:

of my life and a lot of times we will.

Mike Forrester:

Look more at the negative in our own life, rather than what is going right.

Mike Forrester:

And so it's not really a fair comparison.

Mike Forrester:

take the challenges that you're facing and confront 'em and take action on, and

Mike Forrester:

that was, that was something you did, you know, you, you found yourself, I wanna

Mike Forrester:

say you were a dad of two at the time.

Mike Forrester:

Yeah.

Mike Forrester:

Um, you know.

Mike Forrester:

You just kind of came home and your wife was like, this is not, you

Mike Forrester:

know, the way things are going.

Mike Forrester:

You talked about getting on the planes, you know, drunk, um, or

Mike Forrester:

hungover rather, and you know, it's like this is not working and you

Mike Forrester:

then made a decision, you know?

Mike Forrester:

Yeah, you're right.

Mike Forrester:

Take us through like kind of how that built up and then.

Mike Forrester:

How you made that decision?

Mike Forrester:

'cause it's not an easy one to make, right?

Troy Karnes:

Oh, no.

Troy Karnes:

I mean, that's a decision that I kicked down the road for a long time.

Troy Karnes:

Mm-hmm.

Troy Karnes:

And it's easier to see that now that it was to see when I was in the middle of it.

Troy Karnes:

Ultimately the, when I think about what led up to.

Troy Karnes:

My decision to go to rehab was, you know, that Pearl Jam song, elderly Woman

Troy Karnes:

behind this small counter or Behind a counter in a small town, I'm gonna, you

Troy Karnes:

know, it's like long title or whatever.

Troy Karnes:

But, um, it makes me think about that because it's, it's fun and

Troy Karnes:

easy to have a job where you drink a lot and travel a lot.

Troy Karnes:

When you don't have kids, it's you.

Troy Karnes:

And my girlfriend and wife afterwards.

Troy Karnes:

And the amount of responsibilities that you have there fairly low

Troy Karnes:

compared to what I have now.

Troy Karnes:

And so the line in that song goes, I changed by not changing.

Troy Karnes:

Mm-hmm.

Troy Karnes:

And.

Troy Karnes:

That just rings in the back of my mind all the time because

Troy Karnes:

that's how, I mean, that perfectly encapsulates what happened to me.

Troy Karnes:

Right?

Troy Karnes:

We move across the country from Washington DC to Denver, which is where we grew up.

Troy Karnes:

So we came here to have a family, uh.

Troy Karnes:

Kids come, responsibilities increase.

Troy Karnes:

Those things all change around me, but I didn't change with them.

Troy Karnes:

I stayed the same.

Troy Karnes:

And the things that I really admired about myself are the values that

Troy Karnes:

I, you know, that I put label, I labeled myself as, you know,

Troy Karnes:

dependable and like all these things.

Troy Karnes:

Uh, those.

Troy Karnes:

Those went away because I didn't change with all of the surroundings

Troy Karnes:

that were changing around me and the responsibilities that

Troy Karnes:

were getting added to my plate.

Troy Karnes:

And that all came to a head.

Troy Karnes:

And yeah, I mean, my wife kicked me out, said, you can't,

Troy Karnes:

you can't be here tonight.

Troy Karnes:

Uh, and so at that point I thought, man, everything that I had been

Troy Karnes:

working towards was really about.

Troy Karnes:

Like my family, right?

Troy Karnes:

Like I was, I was, I was pretty in touch with my family, or I wanted to

Troy Karnes:

be, that's a better way to put it.

Troy Karnes:

I wanted to be more in touch with my family than I was.

Troy Karnes:

And at that moment it just snapped in a place that I had actually

Troy Karnes:

risked all of that and was on the verge of losing it, and that made

Troy Karnes:

half of the decision.

Troy Karnes:

Much easier.

Troy Karnes:

Like halfway was there.

Troy Karnes:

It was like, oh, I gotta, okay, this is like we're talking about

Troy Karnes:

real consequences now, right?

Troy Karnes:

But the other half of that was that I had been proven to myself

Troy Karnes:

time and time again that it was not something I could do by myself.

Troy Karnes:

I had tried to moderate my drinking.

Troy Karnes:

I had tried to, you know, keep it cool.

Troy Karnes:

I had tried like so many, so many times.

Troy Karnes:

It was like, Ooh, that one got away from me, but I, you know, I'll learn

Troy Karnes:

from this and do better next time.

Troy Karnes:

And, and it was abundantly clear that I needed help.

Troy Karnes:

I could not do it on my own.

Troy Karnes:

And so when I paired those two things together.

Troy Karnes:

That decision came so fast.

Troy Karnes:

Yeah.

Troy Karnes:

That day.

Troy Karnes:

It's like one of those things where it's like, you know, a decision

Troy Karnes:

decades in the making, but in that moment was so fast and so, so clear.

Mike Forrester:

You touched on something there that I, I wanna kind of go back

Mike Forrester:

to is that you asked for help and I. I have been, you know, guilty of this.

Mike Forrester:

It's, it was a struggle that I had where it was like a, uh, a pride thing, right?

Mike Forrester:

It was like, I don't wanna ask for help.

Mike Forrester:

Then people see me as weak, and that's something that I hear

Mike Forrester:

from other men, you know, whether it's shame, it's guilt, whatever.

Mike Forrester:

you asked for help, and I'm assuming that asking for help is something that.

Mike Forrester:

You know, as you've gone through these challenges is something that you're like,

Mike Forrester:

Hey, I need to continue doing again.

Mike Forrester:

Is that the case or was it just, you know, um, that one time or

Mike Forrester:

is asking for help something that's come become more frequent?

Troy Karnes:

Oh, it's certainly become more frequent than it was

Troy Karnes:

before, but easy, easy bar to cl to clear when I was asking for help.

Troy Karnes:

Not at all before, you know, two year.

Troy Karnes:

So just one, you know, you're like tons of, tons of infinity.

Troy Karnes:

Um, but I, I grew, I see this in men too, but I grew up believing that

Troy Karnes:

asking for help was a sign of weakness.

Troy Karnes:

I think everything you listed there as part of it, right?

Troy Karnes:

It's shame, weakness, ego, there's all of those things wrapped

Troy Karnes:

up in asking for help that.

Troy Karnes:

That prevents guys from doing it.

Troy Karnes:

that was the first, the first kind of mantra that stuck in my mind was asking

Troy Karnes:

for help is not a sign of weakness.

Troy Karnes:

It's actually a sign of maturity.

Troy Karnes:

And I should do it more often, and I do it more often now.

Troy Karnes:

But I mean, full disclosure, I just did a, I just put on an event a couple weeks

Troy Karnes:

ago, uh, to raise money for cancer and I'm like getting it set up and usually

Troy Karnes:

I set all of this up on my own and.

Troy Karnes:

Some of that is because I don't wanna, I didn't wanna like bother

Troy Karnes:

other people who are into town.

Troy Karnes:

I'm up early anyway, so, and it, and part of it is also like,

Troy Karnes:

you know, I like to futz around and kind of get the, the event.

Troy Karnes:

Settled in my mind, but this time we had like a bunch, you know, a handful

Troy Karnes:

of guys sitting around and I'm, you know, I'm five five, not a tall guy,

Troy Karnes:

and I'm like trying to hang up the sign.

Troy Karnes:

There's like a tall guy right there.

Troy Karnes:

He is like, Hey, you could just ask for help there.

Troy Karnes:

I was like, yeah, you know what, you, you are right?

Troy Karnes:

I could ask you to just like, flip this sign up because I'm

Troy Karnes:

five five and you're six five.

Troy Karnes:

Like, this is gonna be easy for you.

Troy Karnes:

Right?

Troy Karnes:

So it's, you know, never perfect, but.

Troy Karnes:

progress over perfection, right?

Mike Forrester:

Absolutely.

Mike Forrester:

Yeah.

Mike Forrester:

And I think the funny thing with asking for help, you know,

Mike Forrester:

I may not ask you for help.

Mike Forrester:

Again, going back to the whole, you know, maybe Troy's busy, um,

Mike Forrester:

you know, it's a sign of weakness.

Mike Forrester:

I. My pride won't let me, whatever, but I would be frustrated if

Mike Forrester:

you didn't ask me for help.

Mike Forrester:

So there's these two sides, you know, of asking for help.

Mike Forrester:

I want my friends to ask for help, but I won't allow myself to do that.

Mike Forrester:

Yeah.

Mike Forrester:

Is that something you've seen as well?

Troy Karnes:

Oh, a hundred, a hundred percent.

Troy Karnes:

It's actually one of the, you know, Simon Sinek talks about this a

Troy Karnes:

little bit, and I, it's one of, uh.

Troy Karnes:

One of the things I really like that he talks about, which is

Troy Karnes:

exactly what you said, right?

Troy Karnes:

If, if somebody else asked me for help, I would be thrilled and excited, and I would

Troy Karnes:

feel very good about being able to help.

Troy Karnes:

And so he, as he puts it, if you're not asking for help, you are.

Troy Karnes:

Uh, you know, you are taking, or you're stealing the opportunity

Troy Karnes:

for your friends or loved ones to feel good by giving you a hand.

Troy Karnes:

Uh, you know, there's some, there's some mental judo that you have to do there.

Troy Karnes:

Um, but I'm with him like, I mean, I feel great when I get to help people out.

Troy Karnes:

Um mm-hmm.

Troy Karnes:

But yeah.

Troy Karnes:

Then you feel like.

Troy Karnes:

I can't ask 'cause I don't wanna inconvenience anybody or or whatever else.

Troy Karnes:

this idea of like, I would love to help people, but I don't

Troy Karnes:

want to ask people for help.

Troy Karnes:

there's a whole part of the book dedicated to loneliness and relationships and one of

Troy Karnes:

the things that I. I try to teach people or coach people is to call your friends.

Troy Karnes:

Like try to call somebody every day the amount of dopamine that

Troy Karnes:

you get when you hang up the phone after you talk to a friend for

Troy Karnes:

even like a few minutes is amazing.

Troy Karnes:

But what do we do?

Troy Karnes:

We like hit social media.

Troy Karnes:

We text, we think, oh, I don't wanna bother them.

Troy Karnes:

Like, these are your friends.

Troy Karnes:

You're not gonna bother them.

Troy Karnes:

If they called you, you'd be like, oh, sick.

Troy Karnes:

I get to talk to whoever.

Troy Karnes:

Right?

Troy Karnes:

Uh, and so it's not just in asking for help, but it's reaching

Troy Karnes:

out to people in so many ways.

Mike Forrester:

the powerful thing is there are so many stories that I've

Mike Forrester:

heard of guys that were ready to end it.

Mike Forrester:

Right?

Mike Forrester:

And it was a call that was just randomly, you know?

Mike Forrester:

Mm-hmm.

Mike Forrester:

Made by a friend.

Mike Forrester:

It was the decision that stopped them from stepping over the edge.

Mike Forrester:

And I'm like, we never know what, what may seem to me as just a random call

Mike Forrester:

to say hello could be life giving, you know, life, life insuring Yeah.

Mike Forrester:

As well.

Mike Forrester:

Yeah.

Mike Forrester:

To the person on the other line.

Mike Forrester:

We don't know what they're going through.

Mike Forrester:

So dude, exactly what you're talking about.

Mike Forrester:

And right now we're, we're worried.

Mike Forrester:

Seeing numbers that are huge as far as loneliness and just not

Mike Forrester:

being connected, so doing that.

Mike Forrester:

Is an amazingly powerful tool, not just for the person that's getting the call,

Mike Forrester:

but like you talked about for us as well, because we're getting the pleasure of

Mike Forrester:

talking to a friend and all the amazing chemical stuff that goes on internally.

Troy Karnes:

Yeah.

Troy Karnes:

And just to highlight those numbers, right, just to highlight those numbers

Troy Karnes:

about loneliness a little bit, uh, I want, I wanna share just a couple.

Troy Karnes:

Um, first one, this sounds crazy.

Troy Karnes:

Half of us don't have three close friends.

Troy Karnes:

Mm-hmm.

Troy Karnes:

And I don't know, I don't know when this will come out, but I know like

Troy Karnes:

Mark Zuckerberg got skewered for talking about this a little while back.

Troy Karnes:

Um, because his solution to that was like, we, we should have AI friends.

Troy Karnes:

Um, and I just wanna separate those two things because the stat about not having

Troy Karnes:

three close friends is, is real and scary.

Troy Karnes:

Uh, I would differ on the solution to that.

Troy Karnes:

Uh, and so like, you know.

Troy Karnes:

Take the, take the friends that you have and turn them into closer

Troy Karnes:

friends, but that, that is very scary.

Troy Karnes:

Loneliness also has a pretty big impact on your mortality rate.

Troy Karnes:

Mm-hmm.

Troy Karnes:

Here are those numbers.

Troy Karnes:

So if you feel lonely, right?

Troy Karnes:

If you don't have as many connections to people as you would like to have,

Troy Karnes:

uh, your mortality rate increases 26%.

Troy Karnes:

That's, that's not nothing.

Troy Karnes:

Yeah.

Troy Karnes:

Okay.

Troy Karnes:

If you are isolated, which means that you actually don't have a

Troy Karnes:

lot of connections, then it's 29%, your mortality rate increases 29%,

Troy Karnes:

and if you live alone, it's 32%.

Troy Karnes:

So being lonely and not reaching out and isolating yourself like

Troy Karnes:

increases the chances you will die.

Troy Karnes:

Like it's, it's serious.

Mike Forrester:

Yeah.

Mike Forrester:

And it's not just, um, you know, of natural causes.

Mike Forrester:

Like oftentimes those emotions are what drive men to make the

Mike Forrester:

decision and be like, I'm done.

Mike Forrester:

I have nothing to offer.

Troy Karnes:

Those numbers are actually boosted by people in

Troy Karnes:

middle age, not by old people.

Mike Forrester:

Yeah.

Mike Forrester:

It's, it's, yeah, it's not, um, something to take lightly and it's

Mike Forrester:

a slippery slope to getting into it.

Mike Forrester:

we need to know that stuff because a lot of times that information

Mike Forrester:

is not shared or discussed.

Mike Forrester:

It's just sweep it under the rug.

Mike Forrester:

you made the decision to go to rehab.

Mike Forrester:

To stay in rehab and just as you're getting ready to complete

Mike Forrester:

it, then an unexpected diagnosis of cancer is given, like dude.

Mike Forrester:

The the thought process.

Mike Forrester:

I can only imagine there, Troy is like, I've done the hard work.

Mike Forrester:

Great, let's get out and have the life changing experience and to be hit again

Mike Forrester:

for a lot of guys that will just like leave you at a place of, I'm done.

Mike Forrester:

Why try?

Mike Forrester:

I thought I was on the right path and now I'm getting hit again.

Mike Forrester:

Like, you're taking me out and my, you know, you're, you're cutting

Mike Forrester:

out my legs from underneath me.

Mike Forrester:

What went on and how did you have the resilience to then fight the cancer

Mike Forrester:

and, you know, move through that?

Troy Karnes:

how did I do it?

Troy Karnes:

I mean, I, I, like, I put a pretty good system into place to keep

Troy Karnes:

myself sane and I'm so grateful.

Troy Karnes:

It happened this way, right?

Troy Karnes:

That I went to rehab first, cancer diagnosis afterwards because I

Troy Karnes:

was not equipped to deal with that situation before I went to rehab.

Troy Karnes:

I, I mean, I don't, maybe cliche whatever, but I shudder

Troy Karnes:

to think what I would've done.

Troy Karnes:

I mean, I know what I would've done if I got that diagnosis before

Troy Karnes:

rehab and I was still drinking.

Troy Karnes:

I mean, I just would've drank my way through it, and I don't know what kind

Troy Karnes:

of outcome I would've had at that point.

Troy Karnes:

Not as good as the outcome that I have now.

Troy Karnes:

I don't think

Troy Karnes:

so.

Troy Karnes:

Part of what helped me get through it was sticking to the plan, sticking to what

Troy Karnes:

had made me successful to that point.

Troy Karnes:

The sentiment that you're talking about, like, oh my gosh, how could, like right

Troy Karnes:

when you, when you're getting to the peak of the first hill, like how do you,

Troy Karnes:

it's like, you know, you've heard of like false peaks when you're hiking, right?

Troy Karnes:

You climb up to what you think is the top and then you see, oh, actually there's

Troy Karnes:

like this way bigger thing afterwards.

Troy Karnes:

Uh, yeah.

Troy Karnes:

It was, it was really that kind of moment and my wife actually

Troy Karnes:

said something to me that.

Troy Karnes:

One of the nicest things that she's ever said.

Troy Karnes:

She said a lot of nice things about, but she said, she said, this is unfair.

Troy Karnes:

You just made a decision that will improve our family for

Troy Karnes:

generations and now we have this.

Troy Karnes:

So she really felt the way that you're, the way that you're talking,

Troy Karnes:

I didn't have that feeling myself.

Troy Karnes:

I.

Troy Karnes:

Really just focused on the systems and focused on the routines that

Troy Karnes:

made me successful because I felt like they were gonna be the key to

Troy Karnes:

getting me through the next challenge.

Troy Karnes:

And they did.

Troy Karnes:

And they did.

Troy Karnes:

And, and that then like, proved it twice.

Troy Karnes:

Like it's, it's worked twice.

Troy Karnes:

It's strong, it's strong.

Mike Forrester:

So as you've gone through both, you know, rehab and then getting

Mike Forrester:

through cancer, what are some of the, the things that you put into place?

Mike Forrester:

You talked about having a plan.

Mike Forrester:

Yeah.

Mike Forrester:

Like, how are you creating the plan?

Mike Forrester:

You know, because we all know about goals and you know, hey, new Year's

Mike Forrester:

resolutions, we know how long those, those stick, Troy, they don't.

Mike Forrester:

Yeah.

Mike Forrester:

So like, how are you making a plan?

Mike Forrester:

What's, what's involved in it and how do you make it, you know, actually

Mike Forrester:

work long term beyond just like, you know, seven days, 14 days, three weeks?

Mike Forrester:

How are you making it stick?

Troy Karnes:

Here's the.

Troy Karnes:

Here's the secret about rehab is that I went expecting to learn all about

Troy Karnes:

addiction and how it works in your brain and your body and and everything else.

Troy Karnes:

And there was, there was some of that, but it was the smallest

Troy Karnes:

portion of what I learned there.

Troy Karnes:

It was really treatment for being a human and we should all go.

Troy Karnes:

Everybody should go.

Troy Karnes:

The thing that stuck with me and then the system that I built upon

Troy Karnes:

it was, is not something new.

Troy Karnes:

But I guess I approached it in a way that is a little unique.

Troy Karnes:

So here it is.

Troy Karnes:

It's so simple.

Troy Karnes:

It's so simple.

Troy Karnes:

Nobody makes good decisions when they're hungry, angry, lonely, or tired.

Troy Karnes:

So it's halt.

Troy Karnes:

Four letters.

Troy Karnes:

Easy to say, easy to spell, easy to remember.

Troy Karnes:

when that got coached to me, I didn't like it.

Troy Karnes:

I didn't like it at all because it felt very reactionary.

Troy Karnes:

You know, the therapist basically said, Hey, if you feel like you wanna

Troy Karnes:

drink, go through this checklist.

Troy Karnes:

Are you hungry?

Troy Karnes:

Are you mad?

Troy Karnes:

Are you isolated?

Troy Karnes:

Are you exhausted?

Troy Karnes:

And if so, take care of that instead of going to drink.

Troy Karnes:

And

Troy Karnes:

that felt like it would take a lot of willpower and you don't make it to

Troy Karnes:

rehab by having a lot of willpower.

Troy Karnes:

So.

Troy Karnes:

I said, well, what if I could be more proactive about these

Troy Karnes:

things because I like you?

Troy Karnes:

Do not make good decisions when you're hungry, angry, lonely, or tired.

Troy Karnes:

I believe this, and I believe this is true for everybody, so how could I be

Troy Karnes:

more proactive about it if I could, if I could eat in a way where I felt nourished

Troy Karnes:

and satisfied and not get hangry.

Troy Karnes:

Right.

Troy Karnes:

Not like, you know, skip meals and like I'm like starving.

Troy Karnes:

If I could process my emotions instead of stuffing them, which is a big issue

Troy Karnes:

for men because we're scared of them, but then I can deal with them as they come

Troy Karnes:

and little by little, instead of stuffing them to the point where they exploded.

Troy Karnes:

Right.

Troy Karnes:

And then if I could do things like reach out to my friends, like call my friends

Troy Karnes:

so I'm not feeling alone or isolated.

Troy Karnes:

And if I could, you know, move my body a little bit, pay attention to my sleep so

Troy Karnes:

I have the energy to keep it all together.

Troy Karnes:

If I could be just more proactive about these things, then I would

Troy Karnes:

give myself a shot to stay sober.

Troy Karnes:

Um, and it's worked so far.

Troy Karnes:

And it worked through, yeah.

Troy Karnes:

Through a, you know, a couple pretty gnarly surgeries.

Troy Karnes:

That was my surgeon's word.

Troy Karnes:

Gnarly.

Troy Karnes:

And when, when a surgeon says gnarly, you know, it's true.

Troy Karnes:

Um, so, so that's the basis, right?

Troy Karnes:

That's the foundation.

Troy Karnes:

Then what are the like practical, tactical things?

Troy Karnes:

Okay.

Troy Karnes:

Every morning, morning, it's, I do a, it's, it's a check-in.

Troy Karnes:

Basically.

Troy Karnes:

It's kind of like a checklist.

Troy Karnes:

It, it takes me 90 seconds to do.

Troy Karnes:

First thing I do is how many days sober do I have?

Troy Karnes:

How did I sleep?

Troy Karnes:

I rate these on a scale of one to four.

Troy Karnes:

You can ask me about the four point scale later.

Troy Karnes:

Uh, how did I sleep?

Troy Karnes:

How was my day, the day before?

Troy Karnes:

Uh, then.

Troy Karnes:

What did I, what did I eat the day before for breakfast, lunch, and dinner?

Troy Karnes:

I'm not counting calories, I just write down like what I had

Troy Karnes:

and then was it on plan or not?

Troy Karnes:

On plan,

Troy Karnes:

I weigh myself and, and then I, so all of that is, uh, that's

Troy Karnes:

all basically 90 seconds, right?

Troy Karnes:

And then I have a, and then I have a journal prompt.

Troy Karnes:

I write in the journal that takes longer.

Troy Karnes:

Everything else is, is about 90 seconds to do.

Troy Karnes:

And the journaling process, So it's that, so I check in, so I

Troy Karnes:

check in and those numbers then get translated into a spreadsheet because.

Troy Karnes:

Graphs tell stories that we can recognize instantly.

Troy Karnes:

And research shows that we are better at sticking with things

Troy Karnes:

if we can see it on a graph.

Mike Forrester:

So it's more of being able to see what kind of trends

Mike Forrester:

there are and allowing it not just just to be a feeling, but facts.

Mike Forrester:

Um, what importance does.

Mike Forrester:

Looking back at the day before have on how you approach today.

Mike Forrester:

Mm. Like

Mike Forrester:

what is that, that a, a flag or an indicator for you?

Troy Karnes:

So the power in all of this is, you know, hungry,

Troy Karnes:

angry, lonely, and tired.

Troy Karnes:

They don't exist in silos.

Troy Karnes:

All of these things affect each other and they affect us in some ways the

Troy Karnes:

same and some in different ways.

Troy Karnes:

But I can tell like if my eating goes down the tube, it's because there's

Troy Karnes:

something emotionally happening that, and so I'll see it in my eating before

Troy Karnes:

I even conscious, consciously recognize that something is not quite right.

Troy Karnes:

And so it's a way to.

Troy Karnes:

Have a canary in my emotional coal mine, basically.

Troy Karnes:

Gotcha.

Troy Karnes:

Right.

Troy Karnes:

And what I found after doing this every single day for a while is

Troy Karnes:

you're gonna have days that are good, days that are bad, but you said the

Troy Karnes:

magic word before, which is trend.

Troy Karnes:

Right?

Troy Karnes:

You can have like a few good days and then you know, whatever.

Troy Karnes:

Like things happen in our lives.

Troy Karnes:

Boom.

Troy Karnes:

Awful day.

Troy Karnes:

But it doesn't mean that today's gonna be awful.

Troy Karnes:

It happens all the, it happens all the time.

Troy Karnes:

The, the numbers bounce up and down and up and down.

Troy Karnes:

But the trend has gotten better for a while.

Troy Karnes:

And so that's, that's kind of one of the benefits about doing it every

Troy Karnes:

day is you realize that, that the data point doesn't matter as much.

Troy Karnes:

So just write it down.

Troy Karnes:

And this, to me especially, was helpful.

Troy Karnes:

Losing weight.

Troy Karnes:

I mean, I lost more than 50 pounds doing this.

Troy Karnes:

And

Troy Karnes:

sometimes I could eat the same thing, do the same workout, do like in my

Troy Karnes:

mind, do everything exactly the same.

Troy Karnes:

And one morning I would get on the scale and it would have one number,

Troy Karnes:

and the next day it could even go up.

Troy Karnes:

And I would say like, I did everything right.

Troy Karnes:

I did everything right.

Troy Karnes:

How do I weigh more today than, you know what?

Troy Karnes:

'cause our bodies just fluctuate weight a little bit.

Troy Karnes:

And so.

Troy Karnes:

Initially when I started, I got pretty bunchy about those things.

Troy Karnes:

You know, like I was like, oh my God.

Troy Karnes:

Like I wanted to, but progress is not linear, right?

Troy Karnes:

And so, you know, if you look at the, look at the graph at my weight, it goes ping,

Troy Karnes:

ping, ping, ping, ping, ping, ping, ping.

Troy Karnes:

But sloping down over a while and then now has stayed steady for, for a while now.

Troy Karnes:

Um, yeah, you, you recognize that the one data point doesn't change everything,

Mike Forrester:

right?

Mike Forrester:

Yeah.

Mike Forrester:

And that's, and that's crucial.

Mike Forrester:

I think the way you've set that up is almost like an

Mike Forrester:

early warning system, right?

Mike Forrester:

Rather than saying, Hey, I've, I've slid back, you know, 15 feet.

Mike Forrester:

You're like, whoa, okay.

Mike Forrester:

What We did like two feet backwards.

Mike Forrester:

Okay.

Mike Forrester:

What's going on?

Mike Forrester:

So it's alerting you because you're aware of what's going on.

Mike Forrester:

Um.

Mike Forrester:

I think you talking about like the weight loss is so important because one

Mike Forrester:

point doesn't tell the full picture.

Mike Forrester:

Right?

Mike Forrester:

It doesn't say like, Hey, yeah, you've been going to the gym and

Mike Forrester:

working out, and your muscles are getting, you know, bigger.

Mike Forrester:

Or you know, Hey, you've dropped so many inches in this part of your body.

Mike Forrester:

It's, it's not telling you your energy levels.

Mike Forrester:

Like, it's just like you said, one point.

Mike Forrester:

That tells you a certain picture, but it's collectively, like when

Mike Forrester:

you're listing all those points, um, that you're tracking, it's like that

Mike Forrester:

may just be an awful little blip.

Mike Forrester:

And it's like, okay, but it's bringing you awareness, which I think is so crucial.

Mike Forrester:

You had talked about having four points in kind of how you're looking at stuff.

Mike Forrester:

Can you, uh, share a little bit on that of, of what they

Mike Forrester:

are and how you're using them?

Troy Karnes:

Dude, the the four point scale is amazing.

Troy Karnes:

It's so good.

Troy Karnes:

I, and I like the four point scale because it kind of makes you pick a side.

Troy Karnes:

There's no middle, right?

Troy Karnes:

You have one, two on the maybe not so good side, and then you have three or four.

Troy Karnes:

So it kind of dispenses with the Midwestern politeness of the seven

Troy Karnes:

out of 10 or the three out of five.

Troy Karnes:

And so if it's, you know, if it's, uh, meals for example, right.

Troy Karnes:

Four super clean OnPlan.

Troy Karnes:

Right, exactly.

Troy Karnes:

Exactly what I want it to be doing.

Troy Karnes:

Um, one is I ate like a garbage person.

Troy Karnes:

Now most things are gonna fall between those Right.

Troy Karnes:

Where you're like, you know.

Troy Karnes:

Yeah.

Troy Karnes:

Pretty, pretty good.

Troy Karnes:

I'm like, pretty good.

Troy Karnes:

That's, or you're like, ah, you know, it wasn't super trashy, but I wasn't great.

Troy Karnes:

I wasn't great there.

Troy Karnes:

Uh, and so I like the, I like the four point scale for that.

Troy Karnes:

If it's, if it's about kind of my mood or how was yesterday, right?

Troy Karnes:

It was like, yeah.

Troy Karnes:

Like best day ever.

Troy Karnes:

Like I would, I would, would I wanna repeat that day?

Troy Karnes:

Four is like, absolutely.

Troy Karnes:

Three is like, yeah, yeah, I'd have that day again.

Troy Karnes:

Two is like, ah, you know, I could, I lived through it, but it wasn't the best.

Troy Karnes:

And then one is just like, I would love to never have that day again.

Troy Karnes:

And we all have those days is the point.

Troy Karnes:

Yes.

Troy Karnes:

Right.

Troy Karnes:

Um, the, the other fun thing that this system allows you to do is like

Troy Karnes:

come back at the end of the year or the end of the month or whenever.

Troy Karnes:

And say like, how many amazing days did I have and how many awful days did I have?

Troy Karnes:

Then you can go back 'cause it's in a spreadsheet.

Troy Karnes:

You can filter, filter by the best days, kinda see what you were doing that day.

Troy Karnes:

And when you talk about New Year's resolutions, you can use that as a

Troy Karnes:

way to come up with some of those.

Troy Karnes:

Because if you're not looking back and kind of saying like, what, what were

Troy Karnes:

the common threads in my best days?

Troy Karnes:

And then thinking about how you can structurally put more of

Troy Karnes:

those days into your life, uh, it makes it, it makes it harder.

Troy Karnes:

You're kind of, you're more of a susceptible to the whims that

Troy Karnes:

you're feeling that day, I suppose.

Troy Karnes:

Because it's easy to forget what happened in February when you're

Troy Karnes:

writing this in January, when you're coming up with your New Year's

Troy Karnes:

resolutions, February is too far back.

Troy Karnes:

Right?

Troy Karnes:

But if you have a place to go look at it, um, and see how you're feeling in

Troy Karnes:

the moment, not just how you remember it, because our memories are, you know.

Troy Karnes:

Not, not amazing all the time, I think is a polite way to put it.

Troy Karnes:

But, um, but it helps.

Troy Karnes:

It's a good, it's a good process for me.

Mike Forrester:

So, Troy, you mentioned one of the markers

Mike Forrester:

that you're looking at is sleep.

Mike Forrester:

Mm-hmm.

Mike Forrester:

And for many of us as men, sleep is sacrificed to be, just to be honest.

Mike Forrester:

Right?

Mike Forrester:

Yeah.

Mike Forrester:

We've got all these things we're trying to do in the day.

Mike Forrester:

Finally roll into bed, roll out a bed, exhausted.

Mike Forrester:

Think we're gonna catch up on the weekend.

Mike Forrester:

Yeah.

Mike Forrester:

And then we're trying to cope, you know, medicate.

Mike Forrester:

We're trying to like decompress on the weekend so we don't

Mike Forrester:

get that sleep that we.

Mike Forrester:

You know, missed out during the week.

Mike Forrester:

What kind of factor or like what is the importance of sleep in, you know, having

Mike Forrester:

a great day, how does that, you know, help us to elevate our day or, you know, take

Mike Forrester:

us down the hill and, you know, just Yeah.

Mike Forrester:

Take us towards a crash course.

Troy Karnes:

Uh, I mean, sleeping is massively important

Troy Karnes:

to everything that we do.

Troy Karnes:

If you think about it biologically, for example, if you sleep less than

Troy Karnes:

seven hours, you are more likely to eat 500 extra calories during the

Troy Karnes:

day because your body is tired and your body gets energy in two ways.

Troy Karnes:

It sleeps or it eats.

Troy Karnes:

And so if you're not sleeping, you're probably overeating.

Troy Karnes:

Then you're worried about or thinking about, why can't I lose

Troy Karnes:

weight if you need to lose weight?

Troy Karnes:

And part of that could be because you're not sleeping enough.

Troy Karnes:

Right.

Troy Karnes:

It's good for your emotional regulation, uh, your cognitive abilities, your.

Troy Karnes:

Um, your decision making decreases and people wear not sleeping

Troy Karnes:

a lot like a badge of honor.

Troy Karnes:

I did for a very long time.

Troy Karnes:

And they believe that they can do just as well on five hours of

Troy Karnes:

sleep as they do on seven or eight.

Troy Karnes:

And that is scientifically not true.

Troy Karnes:

And in fact, studies show that the people who believe that the most are the worst.

Troy Karnes:

They have the worst gap between it, but they have an overconfidence.

Troy Karnes:

So believing that you can function on five hours of sleep is like not believing in

Troy Karnes:

gravity, but I, I promise you're wearing a parachute when you jump out of the plane.

Mike Forrester:

Yeah,

Mike Forrester:

no, I'm, I'm guilty of that.

Mike Forrester:

I'll, I'll step onto the boat.

Mike Forrester:

Be the captain.

Mike Forrester:

For over a decade, I was sleeping four hours a night and just thought.

Mike Forrester:

Hey, I'm, I'll be okay.

Mike Forrester:

Nothing could be further from the truth.

Mike Forrester:

I'm reclaiming my health because of that decision and the actions I took in

Mike Forrester:

just sacrificing, laying my sleep aside.

Mike Forrester:

So it definitely plays an importance in how we show up then, and then you

Mike Forrester:

know how our body is down the road.

Mike Forrester:

So, yeah, it's something that I like to encourage guys.

Mike Forrester:

Stop.

Mike Forrester:

Invest in yourself and you know, that is one thing, um, you know,

Mike Forrester:

self-care at a core is sleeping, which we just kind of toss it.

Mike Forrester:

It's like tossed out the window first thing, you know.

Mike Forrester:

But it's something we should be holding onto with all our might to make sure

Mike Forrester:

that we're being the best we can.

Mike Forrester:

So

Troy Karnes:

what is, uh, if you gave somebody one thing, what

Troy Karnes:

did you do to fix your sleep?

Mike Forrester:

I'm still in the process Yeah.

Mike Forrester:

Of fixing it.

Mike Forrester:

Fair.

Mike Forrester:

So setting, setting a time to go to sleep and setting a time to wake up,

Mike Forrester:

getting light out of the bedroom.

Mike Forrester:

Uh, and then, you know, getting up in the middle of the night.

Mike Forrester:

I did not look at the alarm clock.

Mike Forrester:

I used to be so guilty of that.

Mike Forrester:

And then it was like, oh, I should be awake.

Mike Forrester:

I should be rolling.

Mike Forrester:

Man, there's so many myths we buy into to support our lives.

Mike Forrester:

But yeah, those are a couple things.

Mike Forrester:

I'm still working on it, honestly, Troy?

Mike Forrester:

Yeah.

Mike Forrester:

Just because, you know, after over a decade your body gets into habits

Mike Forrester:

and you start to experience things.

Mike Forrester:

But the funny thing is, as I begin to feel like I'm sleeping better and

Mike Forrester:

better, I'm then finding out how.

Mike Forrester:

Much I thought better and better was, was still short and that I, I have

Mike Forrester:

more to go to actually sleep well.

Mike Forrester:

And, um,

Mike Forrester:

yeah.

Mike Forrester:

So it's, it's, I don't know, it's still an awakening and realization process.

Mike Forrester:

Yeah.

Mike Forrester:

If that makes sense.

Mike Forrester:

But it was something that Troy, I neglected, intentionally neglected, um,

Mike Forrester:

you know, for a long period of time.

Mike Forrester:

There is nothing like waking up and feeling alert and vibrant and clearhead.

Mike Forrester:

Um.

Mike Forrester:

I know that there is, again, still more to come.

Mike Forrester:

Yeah.

Mike Forrester:

But don't, don't allow yourself to get to that point.

Mike Forrester:

And I love that the markers, that is an indicator on there of,

Mike Forrester:

Hey, did you sleep really well?

Mike Forrester:

Did you sleep really poorly?

Mike Forrester:

And I have a feeling like you talked about, you'll start seeing that.

Mike Forrester:

And if you're sleeping seven days a week poorly, that's

Mike Forrester:

over one day's worth of extra.

Mike Forrester:

Calories is what you're talking about there, right?

Mike Forrester:

Yeah.

Mike Forrester:

So 3,500 calories, it's like, dang.

Mike Forrester:

So.

Mike Forrester:

Yeah.

Mike Forrester:

Well, Troy, um, dude, I wanna make sure you have given us some definite stuff

Mike Forrester:

to think about and encouraged us in.

Mike Forrester:

Like, Hey man, it, just because you make the right decisions doesn't mean the

Mike Forrester:

future is going to shine kindly on you.

Mike Forrester:

Or like your wife talked about, you know, it doesn't remove like the unfairness.

Mike Forrester:

Of things that can come along.

Mike Forrester:

So I wanna make sure guys can connect with you outside of the podcast.

Mike Forrester:

What's the best way to reach you?

Mike Forrester:

Um, to, to find out more, to get your book and, and just plug into

Mike Forrester:

what you're, you're sharing with men.

Troy Karnes:

Yeah.

Troy Karnes:

I appreciate that.

Troy Karnes:

Easiest way is to just go to my website, right on the homepage.

Troy Karnes:

You can drop your email in there and I send out one email a week

Troy Karnes:

and it usually has a, as a. I, I wanna say it's a good story.

Troy Karnes:

I always think they're good stories, whatever, you know, but it's, uh, but

Troy Karnes:

stories that then have some kind of value, you know, it's not a, it's not a

Troy Karnes:

place where I sell very often, if ever.

Troy Karnes:

Um, usually just stories from my life that feed into something

Troy Karnes:

bigger or a bigger idea that has helped me keep this transformation

Troy Karnes:

that, uh, that I've gone through.

Troy Karnes:

So that's the easiest way.

Troy Karnes:

Go to my website is Troy Kanes, K-A-R-N-E s.com, and drop your email

Troy Karnes:

in and I'll, I'll send you a note.

Troy Karnes:

Easy to connect.

Mike Forrester:

Awesome, Troy.

Mike Forrester:

I appreciate it.

Mike Forrester:

Thank you very much.

Mike Forrester:

I'll have that in the show notes.

Mike Forrester:

So if uh, and you guys are driving down the road, you just come back, revisit it.

Mike Forrester:

You don't have to try and click the link and everything.

Mike Forrester:

We'll make it really easy for you to get with Troy.

Mike Forrester:

So,

Troy Karnes:

yeah.

Mike Forrester:

Troy, thank you again my friend.

Troy Karnes:

Oh, Mike, I appreciate this space.

Troy Karnes:

Thank you so much.

Mike Forrester:

My pleasure.

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About the Podcast

Living Fearless Today
Helping men live fully alive, boldly and courageously
Do you feel overwhelmed when making decisions? Struggle to take action in your personal life or career? Think you're alone in these situations? You're not! In fact, you're in good company. 
 
I'm Mike Forrester, host of the Living Fearless Today podcast. Join me as I interview other men who triumphed over their own adversities, learn how they did it and where they are today. So that whatever you're facing, know others fought the same battle and have conquered those challenges. They are now encouraging you and me to live our life boldly and courageously alongside them.
 
Let's disprove the lie that we're the only one who's going through this situation, that no one knows what it's like. You're not alone in the struggle you're working through. As men, we have more in common in our journey than you might want to believe.
 
Join me here each Tuesday for the interview and then again on Friday as I spotlight the lessons learned. How we can apply them to become the confident and courageous man we're wanting to be - for ourselves, our wife and our children.
 
Be sure to give a follow to the Living Fearless Today podcast on your favorite platform. I look forward to being with you during the next episode.

About your host

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Mike Forrester

Mike Forrester is a men's transformation coach, founder of the Living Fearless coaching programs, and host of the Living Fearless Today podcast. His insights, methods and stories of overcoming childhood trauma, dyslexia and loss of loved ones have been featured on various podcasts, including Hanging Onto Hope, Extreme Health, Own Your Life Own Your Career and Think Unbroken.