Leaning Into What Makes You Different And Unique with Alan Lazaros

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Well, hello and welcome back, my friend, and this week I've

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got Alan Lazarus joining me.

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And Alan has one of those experiences where you could look at him and go,

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Alan, you've got that get out of jail card that would allow you to just go off

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the rails, to medicate, to do whatever.

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Alan had an experience at 26 that was that second chance in life.

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And it's no different than any of us.

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We wake up today, tomorrow.

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We've got that second chance.

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We don't have to wait for that event to occur.

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We've got today.

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And I want to, want you to see from the way Alan has changed things that there

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is hope that we can change and our life can change and that it's just up to us to

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take the actions and make that commitment.

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To ourselves and to what we're doing to bring about that transformed life.

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So super excited to jump in with Alan here.

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How are you doing today, Alan?

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I'm doing very well.

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Thank you for that intro.

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And I could not agree more.

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Every single day is a new opportunity to go and build a

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bigger, better, brighter future.

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But it's, it starts with taking personal responsibility and it starts with

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learning how to build self belief and it starts with work ethic and humility and.

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I think all great things need to sort of start there, and I'm very grateful

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to be here because I do not take it lightly to speak into the lives of other

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people, because what you are seeing and hearing is changing what you think

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about, say, feel, do, believe, and what you say, think, do, feel, and believe

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dictates your bigger, better, brighter future, whether or not you actually

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grab that and make it happen or not.

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So if, if you are listening or watching this, I'm very grateful

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and honored, seriously, because.

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Podcasts, books, and motivational videos have really helped me

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sort of reorchestrate my life in a much more positive direction.

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I started listening to podcasts and reading self improvement books

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10 years ago, and they've, they've absolutely transformed the way I think.

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And, and the way that I live,

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yeah.

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And that's the thing.

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They have that power.

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It's whether we like step into, uh, you know, what they're providing

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us with and really amplify it.

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So it's just like a hammer.

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If hammer can sit on the desk and look great.

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But man, if you use it on a nail, it's going to make a difference there.

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Alan, let's jump into what is, what does it look like on the professional

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side of things for you today?

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Professional first.

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Okay.

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Yeah, I love it.

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I think all of us love the personal or the professional.

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I love professional.

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So the personal is more vulnerable for me.

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Uh, professional.

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Some people have a job, some people have a career, some people have a calling.

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I am very fortunate ten years ago to have transitioned from career to calling.

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What does my professional life look like?

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So I'm the CEO of Next Level University.

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You've met my business partner, Kevin.

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Two, two young men, grew up without dads, uh, trying to be

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male role models in the world.

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And, uh, Big dreams, lots of work ethic and no self worth.

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I'm kidding.

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Uh, but, but kind of in hindsight.

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And, uh, I'm the CEO of the company.

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We have a 17 person team now.

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We have, uh, 11 departments.

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It used to be 22, but we collapsed it like we talked about.

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And got refocused.

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And now I'm a business coach primarily.

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So there's three things that I do.

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I call them the glass balls.

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I say we're all jugglers.

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This is the metaphor I use with my entire company and all my clients.

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A company of 17 people, clients of 28 people on my roster

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currently, all business owners.

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And I say this metaphor, I'll start with this, this is game

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changing, has been for me.

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We're all jugglers, and we're juggling 12 balls.

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You know, you got household, laundry, you're the CEO, you're also a coach, you

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also have fitness, blah, blah, blah, blah.

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You're juggling 12 balls.

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Three of them are glass.

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Nine of them are rubber, the rubber ones you can drop and they bounce back up.

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Can't drop the glass balls.

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Cause if you do, they shatter, how dare you?

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I'm kidding.

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They shatter.

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And then I went one layer deeper because I kept dropping my glass

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balls and I want to lead by example.

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So I tell the team, I say, okay, we all have three glass balls.

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Cause we all have our priority run prior to two priority three.

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And mine is coaching, training, and podcasting.

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And last week I had to cancel two podcasts because a client needed me.

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And I say, there's a gold ball, there's a silver ball and a bronze ball.

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So three glass balls, one's golden, one's silver, one's bronze.

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And I traded in two bronze for a gold last week.

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So now my new metaphor, and this I use with all my clients

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on my team very recently, never drop the golden glass ball.

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And so for me, professionally, the golden glass ball is one on one coaching.

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One on one coaching.

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28 one on one clients currently.

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Business owners, business coaching.

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That is my favorite work in the freaking world.

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I like it significantly more than everything else I do, but, uh, that's

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really what I'm mainly focused on.

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And honestly, that's the one place I'm really winning at because I'm

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so focused on it and a lot of I'm outside my comfort zone for sure.

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And kind of letting some other things fall.

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Well, and I think being able to like, look at, Hey, this

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is what I'm passionate about.

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This is where I'm gifted and this is not where I'm gifted.

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You know, and being able to discern that right there is super powerful as well.

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I mean, not to be overlooked and, you know, minimize.

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So,

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well, thank you for calling that out too, because Kevin and I, we both

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have similar glass balls, but his golden glass ball is podcasting.

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And working

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with podcasters for me, podcasting is my bronze one.

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So it's coaching, training, podcasting, podcasting is a wider net.

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And what we learned over the years as a computer engineer, me, I'm very esoteric,

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weird, high statistical anomaly guy.

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So he casts a wide net better than I do one on one.

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I'm your guy.

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I mean, we can customize design, reverse engineer, anything you want within

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goals, dreams, metrics, habits, skills.

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Identity casting a wide net for me is really hard.

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I used to think I was a strong speaker.

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Then Kevin and I would go give speeches together.

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Everyone would hate me and love him.

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So, um, he would think he's going to add no value and everyone

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would love him and enjoy him.

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I would think I'm going to add tons of value, but I'm afraid

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everyone's going to hate me.

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And so he found out.

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We found out through each other, his fear is not adding value.

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I'm not afraid of that at all.

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My fear is not being liked.

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So he's naturally liked.

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I naturally add value.

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Um, but it turns out no one gets the value if they don't like you.

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So, um, I had to kind of lean into one on one we hide me behind the curtain.

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You're the, you're the wizard of Oz is what I hear in

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there.

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We all crave what we're not, I guess, you know?

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Well, and

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that was exactly what I was going to ask you.

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I'm like, okay, so you guys have had similar like challenges, right?

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But different paths do when you and, and Kevin look at that.

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Do you then see that tied back to.

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Um, kind of your individual experiences, like what you went through in

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your childhood, um, upbringing.

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Is that what it's related back to?

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Well, there's, so there's three frames that, uh, whenever I coach anybody, I'm

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always looking at three main things.

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What do you think about yourself?

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What do you feel about yourself?

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What do you believe about yourself?

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Self concept and self awareness.

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Self acceptance, self discipline, self love, all these self things.

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Uh, that was the one that I struggled with the self concept

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stuff, the self awareness stuff.

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I didn't understand myself that well.

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I didn't understand how freaking different I was.

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Uh, the second one is how you view the human condition.

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Cause people say, well, how you view things changes the way you, yes,

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but there's three different things.

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How you view yourself, how you view others and how you view the world.

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I understood the world and how the world worked.

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I understood business, and finance, and science, and technology, and chemistry,

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and mathematics, and buh buh buh buh.

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So I understood how the economy worked.

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Kevin didn't at all.

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To an alarming extent.

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It's like, brother.

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So I taught him about the world.

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He helped me learn more about myself.

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Particularly where I was different.

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Uh, one example to make this tangible rather than esoteric is I didn't

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understand that a lot of people don't believe in themselves because

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we were friends in middle school and then in high school, he didn't

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like me and I didn't like that.

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He didn't like me, but I never disliked him, but in hindsight, he was really

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insecure and didn't believe in himself.

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And I was apparently pretty arrogant.

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Um, I appeared arrogant and I finally figured out why if you have level

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10 self belief and only level eight humility, you appear level two arrogant.

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Oh, okay.

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So I do come off as very arrogant, particularly to people who

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don't believe in themselves.

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But I'm a math guy, so I have a lot of mathematical certainty, so External

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achievement always came fairly easy.

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But anyways, so, that's an example where Kev said, Dude, you don't understand what

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it's like not to believe in yourself.

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And at the time I was like, what do you mean?

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I don't even know what you're talking about.

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He's like, dude, no one believes in themselves as much as they pretend.

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And I was like, seriously?

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And since then, that's really opened up a new world for me, because there's certain

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people in the world, I use Tom Brady as an example, that dude has no idea what

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it's like not to believe in himself.

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He has no clue.

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And he doesn't, everyone around him acts like they believe in

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themselves too, so he lives in this echo chamber of the whole world.

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If you ever heard Dwayne the Rock Johnson, he says this, he says,

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well, just because it's never been done doesn't mean it can't be done.

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And for me, I'm like, that's exactly how I think it makes no sense to other people.

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It's like, you really think you're going to be the next Will Smith in my head?

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It's like, well, someone has to.

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So Kev is the one who helped me understand that I have no idea how

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I'm wired and how different I am.

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So, um, to make this all land, it's how you view yourself, how you view others,

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how you view the world is what matters.

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And growing up, we had similar circumstances, but the way we

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looked at ourselves, others in the world was very different.

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And that actually has helped us learn a lot.

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About each other and ourselves and other people.

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That is a lot that could be unpacked in there and gone further.

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Man, that's powerful there.

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Alan , I wanted to make

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it hard for you to choose where to go next.

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. Well, well I'm, I'm going with that high C on the disc and I'm looking at the

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check box that goes the next path to get, you know, continue on the journey.

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So I'm like, alright, let's, let's, let's go that way.

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. So I gotta do disc myself.

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I'm so sorry to interrupt you.

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I, I gotta do disc.

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I, I, I should have, what do you think is mine?

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Am I high D.

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Um, you would probably be D and maybe C, um, if you're looking

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at like What do they stand

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for again?

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Cause I do hexaco.

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And here's the thing about personality tests that have really bothered me.

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I don't mean to be, uh, uh, take the episode here, but you

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ever seen the Divergent series?

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I'm a big film guy.

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Divergent.

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The film Divergent.

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Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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I have.

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The factions.

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Area day is one of them.

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Very smart.

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And then there's courageous.

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One of the things, one of the things that I never really liked about

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personality tests is I always felt like I belong in all of them and, and

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I could be wrong about this and please, as pretentious as this is going to

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sound, I wonder if some of us really are divergent, like I never felt like.

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Just an athlete.

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I never felt like just an engineer.

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I remember I used to say, why aren't engineers in better shape?

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Like I'm an engineer.

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Why, why aren't business professionals in better shape?

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Why aren't fitness models, business owners?

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Like what, why, why can't you be good looking and intelligent?

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I always wondered that and I think, I think in hindsight, it's very clear.

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I think that maybe these personality tests, the reason I never liked them

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is because I felt like I, I was disc all, all four of them in some way.

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Yeah, you, you will show up.

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Like I can say within disc, you'll have a certain percentage in each of

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the four, there will be a dominant one and a secondary one that rises

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to say, Hey, here's where you're at with the thing to be aware of is with.

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Each of these assessments, they're focused on A certain aspect.

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So if you look at a diamond, right, it's got multiple facets.

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They're looking at a facet on that diamond.

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They're not a full spectrum.

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So when you bring in like Myers Briggs, you know, MBTI or, um,

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Hexico, Hexico.

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I've not heard of Hexico.

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Um, there's one that's

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humility, extraversion, that kind of thing.

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Okay.

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I know that conscientiousness is a big part of hexaco.

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I haven't done, I haven't done a full hexaco, uh, personality

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test, but it's, it's definitely informed some because in hexaco.

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Anyone who has high in conscientiousness is most associated with external success.

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And I always felt like I was really wired that way.

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It's organization, prudence, diligence, and work ethic.

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And prudence is the ability to make the right decision.

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Diligence is work ethic.

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Uh, perfectionism is in there too.

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Cause people think perfectionism is a bad thing, but being very thorough

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is actually really good in business.

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So, um, again, I digress, but

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I'll just say thorough and perfectionism were not the same word for me when

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I was, when I was insecure, low self worth, they were very different.

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The perfectionism was like the, the way to.

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And so it was the way that I didn't then get to the completion.

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Right.

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I didn't release or finish things because they were never perfect.

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And so it was like, For me, it was a cop out, but thorough was a different thing.

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I could give you something that was thorough, but if it was like,

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Hey, this has got to be perfect.

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Nope.

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They didn't match up.

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Um, kind of tying back into the, the assessments.

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I think that in taking multiple assessments, you get a more well

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rounded, um, image of what your gifting is and who you are and you're, you're

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bent, but I don't think any of them in and of themselves have the whole.

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of who we are, what we can do.

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It's almost like going to a buffet and saying, okay, I want chicken.

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Great.

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Here's this type of chicken.

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I want, I don't want the other ones.

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I want beef.

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You know what I mean?

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You're, you're able to pick out a, um, A different focus.

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Yeah, exactly.

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And so, um, they're great.

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And DISC has then been, um, kind of stylized, right?

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So somebody would say, these are the different gems and it's, you

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know, four different gems, but it's, it's just a reinterpretation of it.

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So you could do that with animals or trees or whatever.

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kind of character or, or image to overlay on the original disc.

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But They all kind of have that same flair on it.

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So there's a lot of them that will have four and that's what

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they're measuring is, you know, that D, I, S and C. So what are the

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D, I, S and C stand for?

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So D is dominant driven.

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Uh, it's, it is like a driver.

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Um, so hang on, let's see.

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So the D is more of like.

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The CEO, they have the vision, but they don't really have the details.

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Um, they're, they're going to be just like, Hey, Alan, go, go take care of

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this engineering project and run with it.

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Right.

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Um, I is the party.

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And so they're more of like the influencer.

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They're going to, you don't really have a party until an eye shows up.

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So, you know, think of like life.

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D is dominance, I is influence, S is steadiness, and conscientiousness

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is the C, is conscientiousness.

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So C is more of like task, I'm using a spreadsheet, like you're

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very detail technical oriented.

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I resonate with all of them so deeply.

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And, and at some level you will.

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It could be like D is 80, um, S would be like, Is it possible to have

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really high scores in all of them?

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Um, not that I've seen you could have a high score, you could

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have a high score in all of them, but then the thing that they're

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looking at is what are you masking?

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So are you really answering truthfully?

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To where everything is, you know what I'm saying?

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Like, um, like when you look at Kevin, Kevin has certain

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strengths and certain weaknesses.

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You have certain strengths and certain weaknesses.

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So something will be that cream that rises to the top and something else may

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be at the middle level, but there's going to be some area where you really excel.

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And it's like, okay, here's your, um, your primary.

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Yeah.

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Characteristic of it.

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So, um, there's more nuances in it.

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I understand it well enough to know that.

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Hey, I am very focused on tasks.

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It's almost like

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1 of them is your nature.

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Like, there's, there's your nature and then there's what you've nurtured in

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the sense of it's almost like, because I used to think self improvement was.

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I'm going to go and try to improve these things that I suck at and try to be

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different than I am versus accept that I actually am naturally engineering thinking

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math, modality of thinking, and, and then learn how to, because I think in the

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past I had some shame around being smart.

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And

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I think that when I was around other people, I would socially sort of

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fit in, try to fit in and belong.

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And I wouldn't question people who I think were saying ignorant things.

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Cause people who are insecure about their intelligence definitely don't want you to.

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I'll give you an example.

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So there's 1 person is like, well, Alan, you know, these days, the only

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way to make money is real estate.

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And my brain went, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

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Uh, because the tech industry, obviously, social media, eSports, like these, uh,

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if that was ever not true, it would be now, sir, but, uh, 21st century,

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you ever hear the top companies that none of them are in real estate.

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Some of them are, but Walmart, but the point I'm making is

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those people were so insecure.

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They didn't want you to call them out when they were around other people,

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because then they look less than.

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And so being smarter than I learned very young was like

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dangerous, socially dangerous.

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And I think that it made me into this sort of chameleon who could,

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who could communicate well.

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And all my engineering friends from college, they didn't know how

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to communicate with other people.

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I think, I think communication for me.

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Learning how to effectively communicate is actually more nurture than it is nature.

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I don't think I was naturally a strong communicator.

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I think I had to figure out how to do that so that I was socially belong,

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but naturally I think I'm actually very, uh, different than that.

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So like I influence, I'm good at influencing people, but I don't

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feel like that came naturally.

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Yeah.

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And there could be a component to that.

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Yeah, it, it depends.

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Like there's different brands of the disc test, right?

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Um, you'll almost have like, you know, the Baskin Robbins 31 flavors, a company.

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You'll say, yes, we're offering this, but this is the way we interpret it.

Speaker: 00:20:14

And we're looking for this nuance in it.

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So sometimes you'll get that kind of a thing where it's like at work, you

Speaker: 00:20:21

show up as this at home or in your personal life, you show up as this.

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Um, I. I know for me, it was, I was the insecure person.

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And so for being able to look at technical stuff and have that understanding where

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I didn't see that a lot of people did, that became like my sense of strength,

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if that makes sense to where I could have that value and show up and be.

Speaker: 00:20:52

Accepted, which is something I didn't feel at home, is where I could have my value

Speaker: 00:20:57

and my purpose, and it'd be like the way I also protected myself, um, was knowing

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the, the different things that were going on, being able to look at the data and

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go, Hey, this is, this can be a problem.

Speaker: 00:21:12

Oh, great.

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Um, this then means the finance depart, you know, we're not doing

Speaker: 00:21:15

well financially as a company.

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Um, that means that the upper, you know, upper management

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is going to be laying off.

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You know what I mean?

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Like being able to look at stuff and analyze it and make those determinations.

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So, um, but at that point, a lot of our strengths

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come out of fear or scarcity or challenges we had growing up,

Speaker: 00:21:34

at least the conditioned ones.

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Not necessarily the natural strengths, but like, yeah, it's fascinating.

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I, a lot of, a lot of what I needed to be growing up in order to overcome adversity

Speaker: 00:21:45

ended up being my leader on superpowers.

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It's sort of that superhero analogy of the tragedies that happen.

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Being the gifts that eventually you help the world with.

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So I think it's a cool metaphor.

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Yeah.

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And it's, it's something that, I mean, we can see it as the things that are going to

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sink us or be the quicksand that we live, you know, from, but often that becomes

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like the pillars that raise us up, like you're talking about and where we can work

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from and help other people to achieve, you know, higher levels of who they are.

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Um, since we're, we're talking about, you know, Childhood and stuff like that.

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I want to jump over and and kind of give a little bit more of a context

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or understanding about where you come from and how you've made that change.

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Um, so at 2 years old, man, your, your dad passed away in an

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accident, had a really bad accident.

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Um, you know, he's, he's no longer there.

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Your mom gets married and, um, you know, you've got your stepdad

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along and then at 14, they divorce.

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Dude, you're in like just that crucial age, Alan, where it's like those

Speaker: 00:23:00

formative years of, Hey, I, I already feel my hormones going, you know, so

Speaker: 00:23:06

much is changing around me and feels un,

Speaker: 00:23:11

Unsecure.

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And then the male figure that you have, um, has stepped away.

Speaker: 00:23:18

Where do you see, like, with that stuff?

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How did that then impact you?

Speaker: 00:23:25

Figuring out, Hey, this is who I am as a man, what a man is and how you went

Speaker: 00:23:30

forward, um, in your teen and then into adult years, like how did that impact you?

Speaker: 00:23:36

Well, the first thing that came up when you were talking about that was, don't

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worry, I didn't hit puberty till about 30, so there was no hormones going on.

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I'm joking.

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I used to be able to say I still haven't, but now I have a beard.

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So apparently I can't say that.

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No, uh, seriously again, humor is great and I think it's important, but I also

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don't want it to avoid the uncomfortable truths of how hard that time was.

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14 was the hardest year of my life.

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I didn't really know that at the time consciously, but when I

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was 14, my stepdad left, took 90 percent of the income with him.

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We went from sort of, Boats and ski trips and snowmobiles.

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And this was the late nineties, early two thousands, he worked for

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a company called AGFA AGFA, and they did hospital computers during the.

Speaker: 00:24:24

com bubble.

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So, I mean, back in the nineties, particularly in the U S but

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globally, everyone had money.

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I mean, it was wild and, uh, It felt like everyone was running

Speaker: 00:24:35

amok is what I would call it.

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Uh, but certainly my mom and stepdad, they have what I refer to.

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They had what I refer to as a pleasure centered paradigm, which is just a

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belief that life is about having as much fun as possible, which I think is.

Speaker: 00:24:48

A terrible paradigm personally, I think that on the other

Speaker: 00:24:51

side, it looks really fun.

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I did it too.

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It looks really fun from the outside looking in, but from the inside

Speaker: 00:24:56

out, it's it's really terrible.

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And so they love to party and they surrounded themselves with other people

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who love to party and everyone had money.

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So that's a recipe for a lot of stuff and they did not get along.

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And that's a polite way to put it on a on a public medium.

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That said.

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Boats, ski trips, mom drove a BMW, home on a lake, we had an apartment

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building, we literally had a yacht, uh, deep sea fishing, a lot of stuff.

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So when my stepdad left, took 90 percent of the income with him, we went from boats

Speaker: 00:25:26

and ski trips to I now have free lunch at school because our income is so low.

Speaker: 00:25:32

Uh, and there's some shame around that.

Speaker: 00:25:34

I shop at Salvation Army now.

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We weren't gonna starve, however, it was not the same life.

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It was not the same life at all.

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I mean, Xbox and Dreamcast and early Christmas presents, even

Speaker: 00:25:47

though family and home life was not good, the stuff was awesome.

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And the video games and computers and all that stuff that I used to get.

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And then 14 comes, stepdad leaves, takes his entire extended family with him too.

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I still, to this day, have never spoken to or seen a single one of them since.

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I have spoken to my stepdad a little bit on Facebook

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Messenger, but nothing in person.

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And, uh, so I still haven't seen any of them.

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That same year, my sister moves out, understandable, older

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sister, with her older boyfriend.

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Same year, so at this point, the McCorkles, my birth father, John McCorkle,

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Part of a big Irish Catholic family.

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Jim, Joe, John, Jane, Joan, Jeanette.

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Six kids, all J. And, we didn't associate with the McCorkles anymore because

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we were trying to be the Lazaruses.

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Just unconsciously and or avoiding it.

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Trauma.

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I don't really know, to be honest.

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I'm assuming probably the second one.

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And, I'm 14 years old.

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I don't know my birth father's side of the family almost at all.

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My stepfather's side of the family, including him, leave and

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take 90 percent of the income.

Speaker: 00:26:58

Sister moves out.

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Same freakin year.

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Didn't realize this until therapy in my 30s, by the way.

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At least not consciously, obviously.

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I realized it at the time.

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Mom gets in a fight with my Aunt Sandy.

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And my Aunt Sandy ostracizes us from my mom's entire side of the family.

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To this day, I have since seen two of them.

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And one of them, my Aunt Kathy, I've seen one time.

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So I lost three families by the time I'm 14 years old.

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What I didn't understand at the time is the abandonment

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issues that came with that.

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So there's four trauma responses.

Speaker: 00:27:41

Fight, flight, freeze, and fawn.

Speaker: 00:27:43

The ones people know is fight and flight.

Speaker: 00:27:46

Freeze is disassociate, and then fawn Didn't learn about

Speaker: 00:27:50

that until way freaking later.

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Fawn is become a social coward.

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I was Good Will Hunting is a perfect metaphor for the way I was.

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It was just don't Leave me, please.

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Unconsciously, like friends that I, that were not good for me, you

Speaker: 00:28:08

know, just hanging out with people that were not anything like me.

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And, and I just, I realized that socially my trauma response was to two

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things, fight and fawn, fawn, socially, socially, just do whatever you have to

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do to fit in and to belong and try not to lose any more friends or family.

Speaker: 00:28:26

None of that was conscious.

Speaker: 00:28:27

It was all deep seated need for belonging, but behind the scenes, baby.

Speaker: 00:28:34

It was fight.

Speaker: 00:28:36

It was aim higher, work harder, get smarter.

Speaker: 00:28:43

My drive, Kevin always says, you're like a cyborg.

Speaker: 00:28:45

This dude does not stop.

Speaker: 00:28:47

The truth is the drive comes from pain.

Speaker: 00:28:50

It's not from roses.

Speaker: 00:28:51

It's not from butterflies.

Speaker: 00:28:52

Like the super achievers of the world, FYI, they usually have massive trauma.

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Now, when you heal that, my fear going to therapy was am I gonna lose my edge?

Speaker: 00:29:04

Am I gonna lose my edge?

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I've been doing therapy for like four or five years.

Speaker: 00:29:09

My therapist, her name's Carol.

Speaker: 00:29:11

It got bigger, man!

Speaker: 00:29:14

My drive got way freakin bigger!

Speaker: 00:29:16

I was so scared to lose my drive, because if I'm very honest, I do think

Speaker: 00:29:22

the majority of the world is kinda lazy.

Speaker: 00:29:27

Kevin helped me reframe this.

Speaker: 00:29:29

He said, dude, they're not lazy.

Speaker: 00:29:30

You're just really hardworking.

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I'm like, oh.

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But it's hard for you, when I wake up in the morning, I

Speaker: 00:29:39

don't go, I'm so hardworking.

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Like, if anything, I think I'm kind of lazy.

Speaker: 00:29:44

To be completely honest with you guys, I could, I could dial it way up.

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So, it's this weird thing where you have to separate your world from the world,

Speaker: 00:29:52

and that's why statistics changed my life.

Speaker: 00:29:54

Because, statistically, I'm super intelligent and super

Speaker: 00:29:57

hardworking, even though you're not allowed to say that, by the way.

Speaker: 00:29:59

It took me years to be able to say that out loud.

Speaker: 00:30:03

However, I don't wake up in the morning going, I'm so

Speaker: 00:30:05

smart, I think I'm so stupid.

Speaker: 00:30:07

Like, but I'm, I think I'm smarter than most other people, but I'm really dumb.

Speaker: 00:30:11

So compared to what there is to know, I know nothing.

Speaker: 00:30:15

Compared to other people, whoa.

Speaker: 00:30:19

I know a lot.

Speaker: 00:30:20

Holy crap.

Speaker: 00:30:21

And it's very hard to live in that duality.

Speaker: 00:30:23

And so 14 years old was the hardest year of my life, and I went from, I hope to go

Speaker: 00:30:32

to WPI, Worcester Poly Technic Institute.

Speaker: 00:30:34

It's like a mini MIT, one of the best engineering colleges on the planet

Speaker: 00:30:39

to, it's 50 grand a year per year.

Speaker: 00:30:43

Back then.

Speaker: 00:30:44

This is 2000, what?

Speaker: 00:30:46

Three?

Speaker: 00:30:46

2004? Something like that.

Speaker: 00:30:49

I graduated in 2007, so I was a, I was a freshman, so it was 2003,

Speaker: 00:30:54

and I went for my hope to get in.

Speaker: 00:30:57

And go and be an engineer to, I don't, even if I do get

Speaker: 00:31:01

in, I don't think I can go.

Speaker: 00:31:03

We can't afford that.

Speaker: 00:31:04

How the hell am I going to go to college?

Speaker: 00:31:06

So I just, behind the scenes, I fawned and I was, I was a very socially chameleon.

Speaker: 00:31:11

I will chameleon and be whatever you need me to be to get love and belonging.

Speaker: 00:31:16

Terrible idea, by the way.

Speaker: 00:31:18

It's a good way to lose yourself.

Speaker: 00:31:20

Uh, drink alcohol, dial myself down, get dumber, now I fit in.

Speaker: 00:31:24

Awesome.

Speaker: 00:31:25

The second one, though, was fight.

Speaker: 00:31:27

Straight A's, baby.

Speaker: 00:31:28

Didn't get a single B in all of high school.

Speaker: 00:31:30

I got the president's award.

Speaker: 00:31:31

It's behind me, signed by George W. Bush.

Speaker: 00:31:33

And I was the obnoxious guy at the award ceremony that basically didn't sit down.

Speaker: 00:31:37

It was award after award after award, scholarships financially.

Speaker: 00:31:41

And I got to go to WPI.

Speaker: 00:31:42

I got my computer engineering degree.

Speaker: 00:31:44

I got my master's in business, and then it was off to the races in

Speaker: 00:31:46

corporate and 21st century post 2008.

Speaker: 00:31:49

2011 2012 graduate of my bachelor's than my master's, I mean, the economy

Speaker: 00:31:54

was coming back and I'm a computer engineer with an MBA combination.

Speaker: 00:31:58

So it's just, you know, money went from 65 to 85 85 to 1 0 5 1 0 5

Speaker: 00:32:04

to 1 25 1 25 to 1 80 in corporate in the span of like 3 or 4 years.

Speaker: 00:32:09

I had an interview at SpaceX.

Speaker: 00:32:11

I was just sought after because The world needed people who know technology

Speaker: 00:32:17

and honestly, a lot of people freaking don't, which is wild to me because

Speaker: 00:32:21

I grew up with this stuff, right?

Speaker: 00:32:23

I was X B. Can Xbox connect with Halo one back in the day because

Speaker: 00:32:26

we couldn't get on the Internet.

Speaker: 00:32:28

Like, I built my first computer when I was 12.

Speaker: 00:32:31

But you don't know that you don't know you're weird because you're just a kid.

Speaker: 00:32:35

And then when you get older, you go, Oh, I am so freaking weird, right?

Speaker: 00:32:38

I was arguing who was smarter, Steve Jobs or Bill Gates when I was 12 years old.

Speaker: 00:32:43

I used to think Bill, now I think Steve.

Speaker: 00:32:45

But, ultimately, the point is, is no one argues that!

Speaker: 00:32:48

No one is like that!

Speaker: 00:32:50

So, so, long story long, childhood was wildly adverse.

Speaker: 00:32:55

Somehow, I created drive out of that, but I became a social coward,

Speaker: 00:33:00

and I never, everything I just shared, I never could have shared.

Speaker: 00:33:04

Some people are afraid to not be good enough.

Speaker: 00:33:06

I don't have whatever that is, and everyone watching who

Speaker: 00:33:09

does knows that, intuitively.

Speaker: 00:33:11

My fear is being seen as more than.

Speaker: 00:33:13

My fear is I'm too smart.

Speaker: 00:33:16

I'm too much.

Speaker: 00:33:16

I'm too intense.

Speaker: 00:33:17

I'm too driven.

Speaker: 00:33:18

I'm too, and there are other people who have that same thing.

Speaker: 00:33:22

And, and, um, there's that quote by Maya Angelou is it is not our darkness,

Speaker: 00:33:29

but our light that most frightens us.

Speaker: 00:33:31

Kevin, my business partner, who's afraid he's not enough.

Speaker: 00:33:33

He has a great quote.

Speaker: 00:33:34

He says, you are either afraid that all of you is not enough.

Speaker: 00:33:37

That's me.

Speaker: 00:33:38

Or you're afraid that all of you is too much.

Speaker: 00:33:39

That's Alan.

Speaker: 00:33:41

And we work really well together.

Speaker: 00:33:42

And we learned this through each other, by the way, because the people who are too

Speaker: 00:33:45

much don't know that that's their issue.

Speaker: 00:33:47

They're afraid of success, not failure, and they just fail all the time, but

Speaker: 00:33:50

they keep getting better and smarter and working harder and doing more.

Speaker: 00:33:52

And then the people who are feeling like not good enough behind the scenes,

Speaker: 00:33:57

they struggle with self doubt, but then when they're in public, they

Speaker: 00:33:59

act like they believe in themselves.

Speaker: 00:34:01

And especially when they're around people like me, because they're insecure.

Speaker: 00:34:03

So they puff up, I dial down now we belong.

Speaker: 00:34:06

And then we're behind the scenes.

Speaker: 00:34:07

I go back to squatting a ton behind the scenes because I'm safe there.

Speaker: 00:34:11

Um, and so what I say is you are either a social coward like me.

Speaker: 00:34:15

Okay.

Speaker: 00:34:16

Who struggles with courage, social courage, or you are.

Speaker: 00:34:23

Struggling with competence.

Speaker: 00:34:24

You don't feel smart enough or capable enough or good enough at external things.

Speaker: 00:34:29

So I think some of us external achievement is really easy, but socially we feel

Speaker: 00:34:35

easily ostracized and dislikable.

Speaker: 00:34:36

That would be me.

Speaker: 00:34:38

And some of us external achievement is really hard.

Speaker: 00:34:40

You don't feel competent enough or smart enough, but

Speaker: 00:34:43

socially you belong and fit in.

Speaker: 00:34:44

And that makes sense because if you are in the middle of the bell curve, if

Speaker: 00:34:47

you are average, you naturally fit in.

Speaker: 00:34:49

You don't naturally stand out for me.

Speaker: 00:34:50

I naturally stand out.

Speaker: 00:34:51

So I want to fit in.

Speaker: 00:34:53

And ironically, we all want to be different than we are, which is why

Speaker: 00:34:57

it's so deeply unfulfilling because we have to all own and accept who

Speaker: 00:35:01

we are, good, bad, ugly, and then grow from that authentic place.

Speaker: 00:35:04

And the, the, the, I could never have shared any of that before my

Speaker: 00:35:09

thirties because I just was too scared to be honest about who I really am.

Speaker: 00:35:15

Yeah.

Speaker: 00:35:16

And I think that's one thing, especially as man, Alan, that

Speaker: 00:35:19

it's like, if we share who we are.

Speaker: 00:35:22

We're like, okay, we'll just be, you know, ostracized, we'll be kicked

Speaker: 00:35:26

out, man, man card taken, so to speak, and just, you know, we're, we're

Speaker: 00:35:31

afraid of how people will react and that we won't be included anymore.

Speaker: 00:35:36

Um, and so I think the real freedom comes, like you're talking about being

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able to discuss this, because then it's like, I know that I'm not the only one

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that struggles with this, but there's a way to, there's a way to move beyond it.

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Right.

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That I'm not held back by this.

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And, and you talked about four years, um, with your, your counselor,

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that it's like, Hey, that's, that's sharpened the edge, not removed it.

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And so our assumptions can often be the thing that holds us back because it's

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like, we're just like, well, what if, um, you know, I was afraid that if I.

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Went back into what I had experienced that there was more that I had forgotten

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because that's something for my trauma.

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My memory is like Swiss cheese.

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And so there's a lot that I've forgotten.

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Okay, great.

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I'm gonna open Pandora's box.

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And now what?

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I think it's bad.

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Now it's going to be even worse.

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But you know, that's a story for another day.

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Um,

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yeah, that's, that's, I think that all of us deep down are afraid of

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who we really are in a way.

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And that's the, that's the paradox.

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That's the.

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That's the conundrum we all find ourselves in, which it's such a weird thing.

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Kev says this, he said, it's hard to feel bad for someone who checks so many boxes.

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And I know, and the truth is honestly people like I'm not a naturally likable

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person and, and my life changed when I realized that I was jealous of Kevin.

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Kevin admitted to himself that he was jealous of me from the very beginning.

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He's like, I'm never going to be as smart as Alan.

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I don't, and the truth is he isn't going to be.

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And he'll say it, not me.

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Like I am, I'm wired very differently and we're not all the same.

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We're not all born the same.

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And if you think we are, go play basketball with LeBron

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James and then come talk to me.

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The point that I'm making is you are gifted in some areas and

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you're definitely not in others.

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And that comes with a certain level of self acceptance that needs to happen.

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And so, my life changed when I finally admitted that I was envious

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of Kev for how easily likable he is.

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He's a very, we would go to the same thing.

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We'd do the same speech on the same topic.

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And everyone would hate me and everyone would love him and it's

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like what I don't understand like I'm adding more value than he is.

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It doesn't matter.

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It's not about value.

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So deep down little Alan, reparenting myself here, little Alan wanted to belong.

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If you're on the far end of any statistical bell curve, you actually

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statistically don't belong and people don't talk about this.

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They're like, oh, well, you know, it's not lonely at the top.

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Bring people with you.

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Listen, I, I coached someone with a 136 IQ who got a 730 on his math SATs.

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The dude thinks in numbers and the dude's a genius.

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He is alone up here.

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You want to know the freaking truth?

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He is alone statistically.

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He doesn't feel like anyone gets him except for me.

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I get it.

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I get it.

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You, you, no one gets you.

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They don't know the depths of you.

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They, they actually can't.

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You want to know why they can't?

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Because they don't have your brain.

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They don't have your gifts.

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And so, in a way, these people, and he struggles in relationships.

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Of course you do.

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You think in a math modality.

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No one else thinks 30 years ahead.

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And the people who do, you pitch and catch with.

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But there's not as many of us.

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So, an Elon Musk does feel alone.

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Of course he does.

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He doesn't talk about it.

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He thinks, he's like, Yeah, I actually think I fear, feel fear quite deeply.

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No, you don't.

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You just don't know that other people feel it way more than you do.

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And again, don't associate me with Elon, because obviously

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his personal life is atrocious.

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But, the point that I'm trying to make, Is that you have to own who you are,

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good, bad, and ugly, and then learn how to improve from that authentic place.

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I'm never going to be naturally gifted at relationships.

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You want to know why?

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And ironically, I won't get better at relationships until I own the

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fact that I'm not that good at them.

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And the reason I'm not that good at them is because I had an ex girlfriend.

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Her name was Courtney, sweetest person ever.

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She said, dating you is like dating a Stairmaster.

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You never stop.

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And here's the truth.

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I'm never gonna, I don't want to, that's like trying to get, I don't know.

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That's like trying to get a super achiever.

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To, to like R& R all the time.

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I, I haven't taken a full day off in 10 years.

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And, and the reason why, I remember I said that on a

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podcast with a woman named Debra.

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She said, Oh my God, that's so bad for you, Alan.

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And I said, No, Debra, that's bad for you.

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You can't project that onto me.

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I'm not saying I work 16 hour days every day.

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But I do build my goals and dreams every day.

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A little bit each day goes a long way.

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And some days it's one hour.

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Some days it's 16 hours.

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I'm gonna work on Christmas.

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I'm different.

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I don't care about Christmas the way other people do.

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That's my truth!

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And I have other people who admit that to me behind the scenes, but

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it's so fearful to say that because people don't like people like that.

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And so if you're out there and you feel unlikable, you probably are

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very different, and you need to learn how to own that uniqueness

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because that is your superpower.

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Humanity can benefit from it.

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If you do feel average, You need to own that too, and then go to work on

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the stuff that you need to work on.

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And the last piece of this I'll say is, Why would someone work intentionally on

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something they don't think needs work?

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In other words, if Kev doesn't admit that he's not naturally hardworking, Why would

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he go work on becoming more hardworking?

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I'm naturally hardworking.

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I don't, I'm a try hard.

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Whether it was snowboarding or video games or basketball, I'm what

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people refer to as an obsessive.

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It's my nature.

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If anything, I'm dialing it back right now.

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For Kev, he has to really ramp like, in order to keep up, he has to really try.

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And he has to work hard to keep up.

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I think that the hardest thing in life, I believe, is owning

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all of who you really are.

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And all of who you really are has some really positive things, and,

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uh, uh, maybe darker underbelly that, that you need to face.

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Because every strength comes with a weakness.

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For me, self belief is a strength, but humility was harder.

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For me, achievement was a strength, but relationships was harder.

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For me, uh, and then weaknesses come with strengths too.

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One weakness for me, uh, I'm not naturally gifted at communication, but that comes

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with a strength of I'm a math thinker.

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And I think mathematically in a world where most people think.

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In words and concepts and I think just owning all of who you are and then

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improving from that place from a place of actual self acceptance is where all

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all great things are are born because I think not being who you really are

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and owning who you really are is how we end up very unfulfilled and when

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we're unfulfilled we unintentionally hurt the people we love most.

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You also hurt yourself because it's like you're not living

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up to who you really could be.

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And you're, it's like, like you having to play small is still

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detrimental in some way to who you are.

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And.

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You know, you know that consciously, um, but it's just one of those of,

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okay, this is where I'm strong.

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This is where I'm weak.

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This is my challenge.

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This is, this is how I can get through.

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but dude, there's so much more that Alan, I mean, you've already shared

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so much in that we're different.

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We need to understand what our strengths are.

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Um, that sometimes our perception of somebody else can be totally

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false and we don't even know what they're feeling about us.

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It's not our business, but.

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Understand we all have perspectives.

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We're going to show up different and our responsibility is to continue being

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the best that we can be stepping into those strengths, building them, being

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aware of our weakness and seeing it.

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Can we delegate it?

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You know, whatever the case may be, that's a whole different conversation,

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but Um, dude, you've come with so much about where you were and the

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challenges and our challenges do not have to be the thing that holds us back.

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Um, you've shared that.

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I love that, that power that comes from it, Alan.

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And so I'm looking forward to jumping into more of, hey, there was the second

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chance and in the accident that you experienced and how you found that

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healthy balance and being able to discern.

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This is where I'm at.

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This is where the people I'm at are and just kind of the natural barriers

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that exist because of how people are and how you come into the equation,

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how you're accepted and seen.

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Um, dude, there's so much there and so much more to get into.

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And I'm, I'm really looking forward to that.

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I do want to At this point, man, I want to make sure that guys know how

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to connect with, with you, whether it's for, uh, the, the personal coaching,

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the business coaching, the podcast coaching, that whole, um, triangle

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that, that you and Kevin have, um, how can guys connect with you outside

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of the podcast for those things?

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Yeah, again, Mike, thank you for the work you do in the world and, uh, the

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best version of yourself next level.

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You pun intended become the best version of you.

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I'm Alan 3.

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6 right now.

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And Alan 3.

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6 is far better than Alan 3.

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4 or 3.

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2 or 2.

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6 and certainly a lot better than 1.

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6. You know what I'm saying?

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So just best version of yourself.

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I think that's, that's where the, the world gets better.

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As far as where people can find me, so I never used to say this, but this is

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sort of my, my new thing is if you are humble, if you do have work ethic and

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you do want to earn your way to external success and internal fulfillment, you're

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going to love next level university.

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You're going to love Kevin.

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You're going to love me and you're going to love the work we do.

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If you have any level of entitlement.

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Meaning you want big rewards for minimal effort.

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You're gonna hate us.

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You're gonna hate me.

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Please don't bother and honestly, don't reach out the entitled amongst The world

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are just never vibe well with us because we are tryhards We we believe in earning

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it every day and we believe the rent is due every day And if you want to be in

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love, healthy and wealthy, you're going to have to earn it every single day.

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And that's just the truth that no one, uh, I guess is easily to lose sight of.

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And a lot of people that are earning it every day don't really talk about it

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because it's not fun or cool or whatever.

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As far as where you can reach out Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn.

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Uh, Instagram is probably the best place at a Lazarus 88, a L A Z A R O S eight,

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eight DMs, private, vulnerable, please.

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You know, I know a lot of, a lot of people are struggling a lot more

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than they let on, particularly men.

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And so, uh, please reach out if this resonated or if I resonated.

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And we have a podcast called next level university.

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As I mentioned, we're on YouTube, all the podcast platforms.

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We have quite the business.

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Now we do monthly meetups every month.

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I have a book club I do every week.

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We have a journal called the dream liner where you reverse engineer your dreams.

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Breaks down your decade into years, into quarters, into daily metrics and habits.

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And, uh, I do one on one business coaching as well.

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For anyone who wants to start grow, scale, or monetize a business, start

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grow, scale, monetize a podcast.

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Kevin's the podcast guy.

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I'm the business guy.

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And thank you again, Mike, for all that you do.

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And thank you for having me.

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And I look forward to next time and, uh, I'm going to do some disc assessment

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research based on this conversation.

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Well, I appreciate it, my friend.

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And thank you for showing up the way you have and sharing.

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So, so richly, so I appreciate it and we will get back together soon.

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Thank you, Alan.

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Thank you.