Episode 401
The Essential Sleep Habits for Improved Health and Performance with Dr. Bijoy John
Sleep is the one thing we often sacrifice first when life gets busy and chaotic. Yet, it's the foundation of our physical and mental wellness. Dr. Bijoy John, a sleep specialist with 25 years of medical experience, to explore the critical importance of sleep quality and quantity. Dr. John shares his personal journey from sleep deprived medical resident to becoming a sleep advocate, offering impactful insights on how to improve our sleep habits. We discuss the hidden dangers of sleep deprivation, its impact on productivity and the surprising connection between sleep, anxiety, and depression.
Dr. John debunks common sleep myths and provides practical strategies for better sleep, including his unique "vivid imagination" technique. He also explains the fascinating science behind sleep cycles and why going to bed earlier might be more beneficial than you think. Whether you're struggling with insomnia, feeling constantly tired or simply want to optimize your sleep for better performance, this episode offers valuable insights. It's time to prioritize sleep and unlock its power to transform your life.
Key Takeaways:
- The truth about naps and how to use them effectively
- Why your bedroom should be treated like a TSA screening area
- The ideal sleep temperature and why it matters
- How to identify and address sleep debt
- The connection between exercise, nutrition and sleep quality
The key moments in this episode are:
00:09:57 - Strategies for Better Sleep
00:14:04 - Naps and Insomnia
00:18:12 - The Glymphatic System and Deep Sleep
00:25:07 - Supplementing for Better Sleep
00:28:48 - Correlation between Sleep and Anxiety/Depression
00:36:29 - Recognizing Sleep Debt and Its Impact
00:42:07 - Understanding Sleep Disorders
00:44:13 - Impact of Exercise on Sleep
Connect with Matt Hallock
Website
https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-sleepfix/
https://www.instagram.com/dr.sleepfix/
https://www.facebook.com/sleepfixacademy/
Connect with Mike Forrester
Podcast Website
https://LivingFearlessTodayPodcast.com
Coaching Website
https://www.linkedin.com/in/hicoachmike/
Youtube
https://www.youtube.com/@hicoachmike
https://www.facebook.com/hicoachmike
https://www.instagram.com/hicoachmike
Transcript
Well, hello and welcome back my friend, and this week we're
Speaker:gonna jump into something.
Speaker:Probably the one thing that we sacrifice first, when something needs to go
Speaker:in life as far as, you know, we're working, uh, to really, you know, do.
Speaker:Just do life at work.
Speaker:Do life at home.
Speaker:Just trying to push those boundaries right to, to make more time outta 24 hours.
Speaker:And, uh, sleep is that one thing that we're gonna be talking about today.
Speaker:And Dr. Bijoy John is, is one that, and he's gone through that insomnia.
Speaker:He's walked those steps and gone through the experience of.
Speaker:You know, what sleep deprivation can do to us and the negative effects.
Speaker:And he, he's been doing, uh, medical profession for 25 years.
Speaker:He has tons of experience, four different specialties and so excited to jump
Speaker:in here and talk about the one thing that I know I always put on the table
Speaker:and said, nah, I'll catch up later.
Speaker:There's the weekend, the weekend came and.
Speaker:It never came around and, you know, removed that sleep debt.
Speaker:So, Dr. John, how are you doing today?
Speaker:Great, man.
Speaker:I'm happy to, uh, uh, be on your show, Mike.
Speaker:Thanks for having me.
Speaker:Hopefully your, uh, listeners will be enriched so we all can sleep better and
Speaker:make this world a better place, man.
Speaker:Yeah, it starts, it starts with us as far as making the world a better place.
Speaker:I mean, you and I both know that, and I think unfortunately we just kind
Speaker:of, um, toss, toss, sleep aside, you and I both know kind of the detriments
Speaker:that that can cause and, uh, you know, it's, it's one of those things, like
Speaker:I've heard you say before, I know I've experienced, is it's like the one thing
Speaker:where it's like, man, you, you break an arm, there's immediate pain, right?
Speaker:You know, something's off.
Speaker:You put aside the sleep.
Speaker:Do it for a week, do it for a month, goes on for a couple years,
Speaker:man, that, that comes back later.
Speaker:You know, it's not an immediate, you know, kind of.
Speaker:Injury.
Speaker:But man, the implications, the, the harm that it can do us, we'll get into that.
Speaker:But it's, it's much more, um, long term, uh, than, than we,
Speaker:you know, give it credit for.
Speaker:But, you know, we have that invincibility thought process that goes on and,
Speaker:uh, it just doesn't happen that way.
Speaker:But, uh, let's jump in and start with, what does today look like for
Speaker:you on the professional side of things?
Speaker:Today I'm leaving the human leading, uh, you know, the, the perfect
Speaker:triangle, I tell, you know, in my speeches is, you know, time.
Speaker:Money and mind, right?
Speaker:God only gives us two, right?
Speaker:He who has the money has no time because he is spending
Speaker:his time working for the money.
Speaker:And then he who has time and money has no mind.
Speaker:You know, by the time time, you know, you get old, you're not there.
Speaker:So somewhere along the line we have to have that balance.
Speaker:The, the perfect triangle, you know work-life balance is kind of
Speaker:like a myth because you know, to be successful, you have to work hard.
Speaker:But somewhere along the line we can have some kind of normalcy if you
Speaker:focus a little bit time to discover this superpower that we have within
Speaker:ourselves, you know, called sleep.
Speaker:Uh, so that's how I manage my life, uh, all through these years.
Speaker:Um, you know, if you look at my background, my, uh, as an intensive
Speaker:care unit specialist, you know, I have four medical specialties, like you said.
Speaker:I went to med school when I was 17.
Speaker:From a very young age, you know, my mom taught me how to sleep.
Speaker:She made me, uh, made sure I had naps even in exams.
Speaker:I knew if I slept better the night before.
Speaker:I performed better on those tests.
Speaker:So I knew there was something there.
Speaker:So this was, uh, in med school in the early or late eighties
Speaker:when I was, uh, med school.
Speaker:But then nobody talked about it, you know?
Speaker:But then the best part today is everybody's aware of it.
Speaker:Uh, and then I think that's the first step, right?
Speaker:So everybody knows the side effects of, uh, you know, overweight, uh, you
Speaker:know, everybody knows to work out.
Speaker:But today, you know, especially in January when people are making
Speaker:the resolution, sleep should be the foundation on which diet and
Speaker:diet and exercise should be built.
Speaker:You touched on the point about the pain.
Speaker:So if you have a toothache, we're gonna take care of it right away, right?
Speaker:If you have spot that's growing like cancer, you're gonna take care of it.
Speaker:But sleep problems, uh, does not affect you.
Speaker:Uh, right away.
Speaker:There is no risk reward, right?
Speaker:It's a long-term pro, you know, you know, affects long-term benefits, but there's
Speaker:so much research, you know, we are better.
Speaker:Uh, from head to toe by sleeping, uh, better.
Speaker:So, but the first thing is awareness.
Speaker:And I think more people are talking, you know, corporations.
Speaker:I work with corporations to help their employees sleep better.
Speaker:Uh, you know, and then they're like more productive.
Speaker:You know, for example, uh, uh, an employee, the company loses $5,000 every
Speaker:year on an employee for not sleeping.
Speaker:And because they call in sick, you know, they're tired, not to mention the errors
Speaker:they could have, uh, you know, committed, you know, uh, with sleep de depression.
Speaker:This is just calling in sick.
Speaker:So you, you know, if you work on your employees, five of them, you know, you,
Speaker:you save a lot of money and people are more happy, you know, the superpower,
Speaker:uh, I don't take that lightly, you know, in problems in your life.
Speaker:What do he say?
Speaker:Let's sleep on it.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:Nobody says let's work out on it.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:You know, let's diet on it.
Speaker:So we have healing, especially in the, in the day of today's mental health.
Speaker:People are just like, you know, uh, in, in a state of anxiety, but when
Speaker:you sleep better, you're less anxious.
Speaker:And then, uh, if you're less anxious, you sleep better.
Speaker:It's a vicious cycle.
Speaker:You know, it's on page 89 in my book where I mentioned this, you know, importance of.
Speaker:Sleep, depression, uh, and the correlation, uh, between sleep,
Speaker:anxiety and depression, correlation.
Speaker:So it affects everything.
Speaker:And so as we go along, we can talk about, uh, you know, the first thing as
Speaker:is an introduction, uh, to, to lay the foundation of how important sleep is.
Speaker:Yeah, I, I think we just, we almost have things inverted.
Speaker:Like we realize the importance of working out in the diet like you
Speaker:talked about, but we're missing like that first foundational piece and
Speaker:almost building on like quicksand.
Speaker:Um, we just kind of dismiss it.
Speaker:So let's, uh.
Speaker:Let's talk on the personal side.
Speaker:What is, you talked about having, you know, you're in that place where all
Speaker:three sides of the triangle are built.
Speaker:What does the personal side look like for you today?
Speaker:So, um, you know, I did the, the four specialty for 25 years.
Speaker:So, uh, when I turned 50, I made my resolution, so I'm
Speaker:gonna pursue my passion.
Speaker:Uh, because every time I do, even in the ICU, if you leave those
Speaker:patients, uh, alone and give them some quiet time, this is, I'm talking
Speaker:about the intensive care unit.
Speaker:Those patients actually heal better.
Speaker:Uh, even when you're so critically ill.
Speaker:Uh, so even in the ICUI could see the importance of, uh, sleep.
Speaker:And then, and then I see the, you know, this.
Speaker:Persons had heart problem.
Speaker:Some of the irregular heart rate called atrial fibrillation that
Speaker:could have been controlled if their sleep apnea was controlled.
Speaker:And some people are on control, hypertension, and then they come up
Speaker:with a stroke and I said, that could have been controlled if they had, uh,
Speaker:you know, controlled their sleep apnea.
Speaker:So I'm looking at all these effects.
Speaker:So, you know, you practice most of the time reactionary medicine.
Speaker:You deal with the problem.
Speaker:Then sometimes along the line your philosophy changes and say, let's work.
Speaker:Uh, so sleep is tied to so many medical illnesses.
Speaker:So, so I said, let's, uh, let's do that.
Speaker:So I had to walk away, you know, sleep was premium for me.
Speaker:Um, how did I, you know, I used to work like 8,000 hours a week.
Speaker:Uh, so I, I had a professional life and a personal life, I, and, and a family life.
Speaker:I'd never had a, you know, meaning, uh, a personal life.
Speaker:I couldn't go play golf or hang out with my, you know, friends.
Speaker:I worked and then I worked out and then spent time with my family.
Speaker:Uh, but how did I survive?
Speaker:I survived on naps, you know, the long hours.
Speaker:Uh, you know, they don't do that anymore.
Speaker:We used to work 36 hours, 35 hours straight without sleep.
Speaker:But between, I always prioritized sleep by taking power.
Speaker:Naps would be even, you know, whenever things are quiet.
Speaker:So I, I survived on naps.
Speaker:Uh, you know, my, uh, on my career of 25 years.
Speaker:Uh.
Speaker:Full fledged ICU doctor in a big city hospital in Nashville, Tennessee.
Speaker:But now, uh, now it's like I work, I I enjoy my seven, eight hours of sleep.
Speaker:Uh, so I sleep from 10 to six every day.
Speaker:And then the joy, I feel, how good it feels, uh.
Speaker:And of course some people have to work, but I tell people the moment
Speaker:you can get away from the stress of work and, and especially night shift
Speaker:workers, uh, and uh, you know, then priority is your health and your sleep.
Speaker:You know, some, sometimes you have to do what you have to do.
Speaker:I have to do what I have to do.
Speaker:Everybody has to, but when you get a chance, you know, try to step away.
Speaker:And so my, my, my, my life is, uh, you know, great, uh, you know, I
Speaker:think I've found the sweet spot by discovering more, uh, of the sleep.
Speaker:But the, the, the, the, the challenge here is we're compromising on this, right?
Speaker:We have our best friend, the cell phone, and the time on the cell
Speaker:phone comes from, comes from.
Speaker:You know, people are on the cell phone five, six hours, uh, uh, or a total day.
Speaker:And so people are going, you know, getting that information and, and
Speaker:those are the things I wanna work.
Speaker:Uh, at least I can, if I can gain an hour of sleep for
Speaker:everybody, uh, that can be better.
Speaker:Yeah, I think, uh, not having it as like, you know, as kids, we had a bedtime story.
Speaker:Right now it's the, uh, phone providing the bedtime stories, kind of scrolling
Speaker:in bed how does that impact us?
Speaker:Rather than saying, Hey, it's, it's dark outside.
Speaker:I'm going to shut my off.
Speaker:Using our phone and scrolling on it until we're ready to shut the light off.
Speaker:How does that impact us?
Speaker:That's a great question.
Speaker:You know, I have the seven strategies, but you know, again,
Speaker:I'll give you the three of my best.
Speaker:Um, uh, you know, and, and the phone is one of it.
Speaker:Uh, so the number one strategy I tell people how to sleep better is
Speaker:by dedicating, uh, uh, time to worry.
Speaker:The, the, the complaint I get from people is, you know, I.
Speaker:Mind, I'm worrying all the time.
Speaker:So even with your show, whatever I, I, I make sure I'm done.
Speaker:The night off between six and 8:00 PM I dedicate my time to worry.
Speaker:Uh, between 6:00 PM and 8:00 PM what I can resolve, I write it down
Speaker:and I bring it back the next day.
Speaker:So we have whatever is bothered you the night before, you have
Speaker:to try to res resolve it in your, uh, you know, outside the bedroom.
Speaker:And the next thing is I tell people not to bring their phone to.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Uh, so bedroom is, uh, is, you know, probably sleep is a priority there.
Speaker:So what happens with a phone?
Speaker:Uh, we have, we have a great hormone by, by, it's called melatonin.
Speaker:The word mela means darkness, and it's only secreted in
Speaker:darkness and cold temperature.
Speaker:The phone light, especially in a bedroom where there's no ambient
Speaker:light, it just hits the eye and tells the brain, Hey, it's still daytime.
Speaker:There's no need to go to sleep.
Speaker:So you, you know, and, and all the messages, the likes,
Speaker:uh, the, you know, emails.
Speaker:So we start thinking, we are looking in the bed.
Speaker:The text message comes, you wanna look in the, you know,
Speaker:what's happening in the news.
Speaker:Uh, and then if you made a post, you want people to like it.
Speaker:And then you are like, why didn't they like it?
Speaker:You know, all those things that are coming into you.
Speaker:And so I actually leave my phone, I set an alarm for six or six 30 or five 30,
Speaker:whatever, and leave it in my bathroom.
Speaker:So I literally have to wake, you know, walk and then turn the alarm off.
Speaker:And now by the time I'm awake, you know, if you have it close to you, you, you hit
Speaker:the sno, you know, snooze button, right?
Speaker:And then again, it happens.
Speaker:So I tell entry to the bedroom is like a Ts a screening.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:You're leaving your worries outside if you're bringing it in.
Speaker:Be.
Speaker:Then if you're bringing your phone in, beep.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:So those are the two important things.
Speaker:Uh, and I tied in the question of your phone.
Speaker:The third strategy I tell people is when you lay in bed, uh,
Speaker:you have to let go of reality.
Speaker:So I mastered my own techniques called vivid imagination for sleeping.
Speaker:So I live in.
Speaker:Lay in bed, and I think about imagination, clear imagination of the last show I
Speaker:watched, not the bill I have to pay, or the problems with my employees or my, you
Speaker:know, my staff or colleagues, whatever.
Speaker:I don't think about it.
Speaker:I, I resolved it outside, you know, in, in the outside the bedroom,
Speaker:so it's actually preparation.
Speaker:So when you lay in bed, you are giving your body and your mind to rest.
Speaker:The preparation happens before, you know, leaving your worries outside, leaving your
Speaker:phone outside, and then when you're lay in bed, your mind's a little bit calm,
Speaker:uh, your body's calm, and then you start thinking about something totally abstract.
Speaker:And that's how you drift into sleep and it works great.
Speaker:Yeah, it's, it's one of those that, uh, that, that stress, if it runs unchecked
Speaker:mm-hmm.
Speaker:Man, just has detrimental effects on not just like the quantity,
Speaker:but the quality of the sleep.
Speaker:So I love that you touched on just, you know, leaving those outside,
Speaker:writing it down, trying to, to detach from that stress rather than
Speaker:letting it just be like, you know, the pajamas that we still have that
Speaker:are, you know, right there with us.
Speaker:Let's jump back.
Speaker:You had talked about that you were using naps, um, as like your, you
Speaker:know, sleep supplement almost.
Speaker:Um, so at one point, like when you were, you know, going through school,
Speaker:um, you know, I'm assuming as like a resident and, and as a student that.
Speaker:Sleep is like a premium, right?
Speaker:You're pulling all kinds of odd hours, long hours, and, uh, it's not like
Speaker:it's just a walk through the, you know, the garden that's high stress.
Speaker:So that kind of left you with like some, um, insomnia.
Speaker:How did you deal with the insomnia?
Speaker:To move beyond.
Speaker:Um, when you're in such a like, go, go, go, it's not like you can, um, really
Speaker:change the tone of the environment, but you took, it sounds like you
Speaker:took control of the things you could, like what did you do during that
Speaker:time and, and how did it impact you?
Speaker:Naps is, um, you know, is a, you know, it's a little bit of a
Speaker:secret strategy, so it's important.
Speaker:It means two things.
Speaker:One, you're rejuvenating yourself with a nap . Or you are making up for sleep debt.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:So let's say everybody, most all of us get tired around 2:00 PM in the afternoon.
Speaker:That's called the circadian rhythm influence, you know, our body, um, you
Speaker:know, the sun's past this prime the sun race a little bit less, and the chemicals
Speaker:that, you know, the moment we wake up there's chemical to put you to sleep.
Speaker:That's called adenosine, that's why we drink caffeine.
Speaker:Which breaks down the adenosine and that's why we are more awake.
Speaker:So around two o'clock, everything is at its maximum.
Speaker:Your body's chemical to sleep is maximum, and the environment is kind of slow.
Speaker:So you, you are naturally, uh, you know, have a tendency to sleep.
Speaker:So, so when you're sleeping, I take a nap now and not as a
Speaker:survival as a rejuvenator, right?
Speaker:I, I use that 30 minutes, 40 minutes, but if you are taking a nap for Two hours or
Speaker:more, you're operating from a sleep debt.
Speaker:So you, you know, all my, uh, sleep debt that I had, I used to take long naps,
Speaker:so I was operating out of a sleep debt.
Speaker:So here it's a problem because when you sleep for longer, uh, two or three hours,
Speaker:you might enter like a rem period and you don't wanna wake up from a rem period.
Speaker:You're groggy, you're not in a good mood, plus it's gonna
Speaker:affect your sleep at night.
Speaker:It's a vicious cycle.
Speaker:You are taking a nap.
Speaker:A long nap because you didn't sleep well at night.
Speaker:Now the nap is making you not sleep well at night.
Speaker:So I don't recommend naps for people who have sleep problems or insomnia.
Speaker:Uh, but I do recommend naps for the, the regular people
Speaker:who don't have a sleep debt.
Speaker:I think that's the first time I've been called a regular person
Speaker:is because it's like you've settled an argument in my house.
Speaker:So my wife will, you know, when she says she's taking in a nap.
Speaker:It's about two hours when I'm taking a nap, man, it's like 30, maybe 45 minutes.
Speaker:Because any more than that, like you talked about, I wake up groggy.
Speaker:I'm disoriented things are not firing.
Speaker:It's almost like, you know, just somebody put a wet blanket over your brain
Speaker:and just totally puts you in a, uh.
Speaker:A fog.
Speaker:Fog.
Speaker:So, uh, you settled that argument in my house.
Speaker:I appreciate that.
Speaker:You can say that Dr. John said that naps are, you know, that
Speaker:30 minutes is good, over an hour means that you have a sleep debt.
Speaker:Oh yeah.
Speaker:Well, I mean, I'm definitely gonna take that train as far as I can,
Speaker:so I appreciate it.
Speaker:When we're sleeping, like if we don't get enough sleep, as I
Speaker:understand it, you know, like we've got like our lymphatic system.
Speaker:I mean that one's really popular, you know, kind of to carrying
Speaker:the waste out of our body.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:But as I understand it, there's also like a glymphatic system.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Which is helping us with our memories.
Speaker:Correct.
Speaker:Can you.
Speaker:You know, share like the importance of it and how it gets activated in
Speaker:sleep and if we don't get enough, like how does that negatively impact us?
Speaker:So you learned, you learned about the glymphatic system from my book?
Speaker:Or you just knowledge from
Speaker:No, I just went down a rabbit hole with all the, uh, health challenges because
Speaker:of the poor decisions I made in my past.
Speaker:So.
Speaker:That's good to know.
Speaker:So the, the lymphatic system is for the body, but the brain has something
Speaker:called its own, you know, uh, cleaning mechanism, the g lymphatic system, right?
Speaker:That only gets activated in deep sleep.
Speaker:So what happens, uh, you know, the end product of anything is our dead cells.
Speaker:You know, the cells are constantly dying and the end,
Speaker:you have all this muck build up.
Speaker:You
Speaker:know that's the muck that builds up.
Speaker:So poor sleep is one of those causes of, uh, Alzheimer's, uh, dementia.
Speaker:And it, it is one of the treatable or not treatable, preventable
Speaker:causes of, uh, you know, dementia.
Speaker:And the other important thing is the, uh, the poor blood supply because of
Speaker:disorders, uh, like, uh, you know, sleep apnea, uh, uh, especially when
Speaker:there's lack of oxygen to your brain, the blood vessels are narrowed the
Speaker:glymphatic system doesn't happen
Speaker:and some
Speaker:parts of your brain is going to die.
Speaker:Uh, so, so, so treating sleep apnea and having a deep sleep, which
Speaker:activates the, the system, this is our own system to clear all the muck.
Speaker:That's why, uh, uh, you know, when you're not sleeping well or
Speaker:you're sleep deprived, or sleep deficient, or you're sleep debt,
Speaker:you are, you are like in a zombie.
Speaker:You're not, you know, takes some time for you to.
Speaker:Uh, it's a superpowered computer.
Speaker:Our brain, it needs to be turned off.
Speaker:Uh, when it turns on, it should be ready.
Speaker:But when there's all this cobwebs and cellular debris and trash, which is
Speaker:not clear, you're, you're in a little bit of a funk, then you go and drink
Speaker:coffee, you know, then yours going high.
Speaker:Then you go to the bathroom.
Speaker:You, you know, because caffeine is a diuretic.
Speaker:Then you become de So we, in vicious.
Speaker:Uh, and I tell people, you know, the hustle culture as
Speaker:me made us match in sleep.
Speaker:You know, sleep is the, sleep is the old school.
Speaker:Uh, you have to work it.
Speaker:You can't just go, you know, you can't just go get it like on and off.
Speaker:Switch.
Speaker:Turn the switch on.
Speaker:You go to, you know, you work and turn it off, you go to sleep.
Speaker:It doesn't work like this.
Speaker:Sleep is a dimmer, you know, it's like a seven course meal.
Speaker:You can't jump right into the meat.
Speaker:You have to have music, the wine, the salad, the appetizers.
Speaker:It's, it's a slow process.
Speaker:Uh, so to answer the question yeah, in deep sleep, is
Speaker:that, uh, the gets activated.
Speaker:So, great question.
Speaker:When we're not getting enough sleep and we're kind of in that cobweb state, right?
Speaker:That, that fog, um, I think the, the misperception we have is, Hey,
Speaker:I'm gonna, you know, sacrifice the sleep that we've talked about.
Speaker:Um, you know, sometimes it's from the whole hustle culture.
Speaker:Sometimes it's just from our belief, you know, as guys, hey, I'm going
Speaker:to go out there and get four hours of sleep and then that gives me
Speaker:20 hours and I'm gonna crush it.
Speaker:Are there studies or, or in working with your patients, have you seen where we're
Speaker:kind of almost hurting ourself in our productivity and efficiency by not getting
Speaker:that sleep and then we come and we're just kind of like on a 75% efficiency,
Speaker:rather than, Hey, let me stop and get seven to eight hours, be able to come into
Speaker:work and be a hundred percent effective.
Speaker:Are you seeing that kind of stuff?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Great question.
Speaker:So there's this misconception, right?
Speaker:Uh, that I, I hear this all the time.
Speaker:You know, you can, uh, sleep when you die, right?
Speaker:So I tell people that you, you know, you wish maybe granted if you go on this path.
Speaker:So that comes from misinformation.
Speaker:Uh, so there are a few people in this world, uh, have a genetic lottery.
Speaker:They can be normal by sleeping four or five hours.
Speaker:You know, Elon Musk is a classic example.
Speaker:They.
Speaker:For the three, four hours they're sleeping.
Speaker:But most of us, uh, need, you know, at least seven, eight hours
Speaker:to get the cycles and stages.
Speaker:You know, the sleep goes through different cycles, different stages.
Speaker:I mentioned all that in my book.
Speaker:So normal people take some time to get that.
Speaker:So once that information, you know, he's highly successful.
Speaker:So then people look at that and the misinformation goes out.
Speaker:Hey, we can be like him.
Speaker:No need to sleep.
Speaker:Uh, you need to use that extra hours to work, but then it catches up with you.
Speaker:You know, you can do that for a little bit, but then the sleep
Speaker:fatigue that happens, you know, you're not making the right decision.
Speaker:You're not happy.
Speaker:So that's how all the misinformation, hey, he can, you know, he is working
Speaker:without sleeping, so it's a normal.
Speaker:Elon Musk himself thought like that.
Speaker:Everybody's like him.
Speaker:Then he realized, uh, everybody's not like him.
Speaker:He then he went on national news and said, Hey guys, I'm different.
Speaker:I'm built different.
Speaker:You guys are built different.
Speaker:You need to focus on sleep.
Speaker:So that's how the misinformation gets, uh, uh, gets, uh, um, you know, spread around.
Speaker:And some people, you know, run with it.
Speaker:You need to work hard.
Speaker:How can work hard?
Speaker:Um.
Speaker:You know, mentally and physically, uh, without the rest, right?
Speaker:So even, you know, I, I, I, to the local gyms
Speaker:community here, when you sleep longer, you have that human growth
Speaker:hormone, which is needed to, um.
Speaker:Repair your muscles that you worked out hard.
Speaker:Plus you have the energy to work out.
Speaker:So, so that's for the physical, uh, workout and the mental workout.
Speaker:How kind of, you know, you make better decisions.
Speaker:The errors, you know, how many errors there are.
Speaker:You look at because of sleep deprivation, people sleeping
Speaker:on the wheel because the tired.
Speaker:I'm sure many of your friends, at least one guy told me, Hey, I slept,
Speaker:uh, uh, the stop sign and somebody, uh, nudged me or hit you, honk at me.
Speaker:Story for.
Speaker:It's all too common, especially when you're, uh, you know, if you're coming
Speaker:outta corporate, you're working on some crazy project long hours and you just
Speaker:burning the candle at both ends, that, that stuff does happen all too regularly.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Um.
Speaker:Is there, are there things that we can do like as far as hydration supplementation
Speaker:that can help with getting that deeper sleep that you're talking about, you know,
Speaker:the, the seven to eight hours, but where it's not just length, it's also got the.
Speaker:Depth and you're getting that REM sleep, is there stuff we can do?
Speaker:So, um, you know, the, one of the commonest uh, medication
Speaker:is like the, uh, magnesium.
Speaker:So magnesium helps to calm the.
Speaker:And then if you are a, like a nervous person and then magnesium
Speaker:calms you down, and of course if you have a magnesium deficiency, it's
Speaker:gonna, uh, you know, correct itself.
Speaker:So you can, you know, helps with your muscle growth.
Speaker:If there are am muscle pain, you know, uh, uh, some stuff like potassium helps.
Speaker:So there's no particular medication or supplement that you take.
Speaker:The body secretes its own beautiful, uh, medications, uh, or the
Speaker:hormones like melatonin, but the body does it in such a complicated
Speaker:way that you don't get tolerance.
Speaker:So human melatonin is secreted a little bit, little bit, and
Speaker:then a lot of is secreted when your core body temperature drops.
Speaker:So it it is in
Speaker:you.
Speaker:Just like alcohol.
Speaker:You know, you might get a bus after one glass of wine, then within a
Speaker:month you need two glasses of wine.
Speaker:See the same thing.
Speaker:When you take anything from the outside, your body is like,
Speaker:it's putting a tolerance to it.
Speaker:You know, you need a higher dosage.
Speaker:So I see that all the time.
Speaker:So I'm, I'm, I'm against, uh, taking.
Speaker:Uh, even my daughter, she's in law school.
Speaker:She had, you know, stress, anxiety, said, dad, is there anything I can take?
Speaker:I said, no, you have to get through it.
Speaker:Uh, then, and then you're surrendering yourself and impacting your body by not
Speaker:making its own melatonin, uh, or the gaba.
Speaker:But if you have deficiency in vitamin deficiency, vitamin D deficiency,
Speaker:or vitamin K deficiency, magnesium deficiency supplements are good.
Speaker:But other than that, because the body will reject it, uh, you know, because it needs
Speaker:more and more and then it won't work.
Speaker:And anybody who's telling they sleep better on this medication, maybe
Speaker:they're deficient on something, but it's a placebo effect.
Speaker:Uh, it does not long term.
Speaker:It's just a placebo.
Speaker:, you had talked about anxiety and.
Speaker:I'm wondering, is there like a tie between like either the amount of
Speaker:sleep or the quality of sleep that we get and whether somebody could
Speaker:be feeling anxiety or depression?
Speaker:'cause it just, um, you know it when we don't get enough sleep, I
Speaker:know it impacts us in multiple ways.
Speaker:Is that one of those.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Um, anxiety and depression and sleep have a very, very strong correlation.
Speaker:I get a lot of, uh, referral from psychologists and psychiatrists,
Speaker:especially when there are multiple medications and, uh, so
Speaker:there is a direct correlation.
Speaker:So when you don't sleep while you are, you are anxious and your symptoms
Speaker:of anxiety and depression get worse when you rest well, your symptoms
Speaker:actually significantly better because like I said, we heal in our sleep.
Speaker:So I teach the, you know, same techniques for people who are
Speaker:anxious, uh, how to sleep.
Speaker:Uh, so when you don't sleep, you become anxious.
Speaker:When you can become anxious, you don't sleep.
Speaker:So it's like this, you know, this constant, you know, cycle.
Speaker:Um, so to answer a question, absolutely, as in anybody who has
Speaker:got anxiety or depression needs to prioritize their sleep, among other
Speaker:things which cost them to, you know.
Speaker:Somehow along the line, uh, they have to prioritize the value of sleep, which
Speaker:is gonna help them in this process.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker:It's interesting.
Speaker:It's almost like this vicious cycle.
Speaker:If you're too anxious, you don't get enough sleep.
Speaker:If you don't get enough sleep, you become more anxious and they
Speaker:just seem to feed on each other.
Speaker:Is there such a thing as getting too much sleep?
Speaker:You know, like, hey, if somebody needs 9, 10, 11 hours, is that.
Speaker:Still healthy or is that indicating there's some kind of other
Speaker:thing that we need to look at?
Speaker:So we talk about insomnia, which is like a difficulty initiating, maintaining sleep.
Speaker:Then the opposite spectrum is hypersomnia.
Speaker:If you're sleeping consistently, you know, babies in small children
Speaker:like teenagers needs more sleep.
Speaker:Uh, but then I'm talking, we are talking about adults, adults.
Speaker:Maximum you need is eight if you're sleeping more than eight hours.
Speaker:And some people, the key question again is you're still tired after that.
Speaker:You have the opposite, uh, problem called hypersomnia.
Speaker:And I do have, uh, you know, you know, five to 10% of my practice
Speaker:of people who sleep too much.
Speaker:So they have the, the chemicals to keep them.
Speaker:Uh.
Speaker:Uh, so that's another important aspect, and those are the people more likely
Speaker:to be diagnosed with, uh, depression.
Speaker:So, so if you're sleeping 10 hours consistently as an adult, uh, and you
Speaker:may have a, uh, you know, a too much sleep, uh, disorder called hypersomnia.
Speaker:It's called idiopathic hypersomnia, or the extreme form is called narcolepsy.
Speaker:So.
Speaker:So what do you do in that kind of a, a situation where it's like you
Speaker:have that hypersomnia, like do you come to somebody like you that's a,
Speaker:a sleep doc, or are you going like.
Speaker:To somebody else, like what's the path to
Speaker:correct?
Speaker:Um, kind of reeling it back in when you, where you don't have hypersomnia.
Speaker:So, uh, so when you are, when you're operating at a sleep, that meaning
Speaker:you are a night shift worker, you're a resident, and many of the
Speaker:residents during training come to me and say they have a sleep problem.
Speaker:I said, no.
Speaker:I'll see you back, you know, two years, LA later when you have a
Speaker:regular schedule and then come back and see me and they never come back.
Speaker:So I see them in the hallway or in somewhere.
Speaker:I, I make fun of them.
Speaker:Hey, what happened to your sleep?
Speaker:Oh, Dr. John, you know, it's all fine.
Speaker:Um, and so these folks, uh, you know, when they have, you know, diagnosed with,
Speaker:um, hypersomnia, there are, they, I put them on, you know, stimulant medications.
Speaker:So if you're coming out of sleep that you, you, you are gonna sleep.
Speaker:To, you know, you, you had, you flew on a jet, uh, you know, cross many lines,
Speaker:your jet lag, you, you compensate.
Speaker:But if you're consistently sleeping like that for more than two months,
Speaker:uh, without a source of debt or sleep debt, then you have hypersomnia.
Speaker:Then we put them to a sleep study to rule out, you know, whether
Speaker:it's hypersomnia, uh, whether it's narcolepsy, and then we treat them with
Speaker:the medications to keep them awake.
Speaker:Gotcha.
Speaker:Um, we've talked about, you know, like the, the sleeping environment, right?
Speaker:And it being cold.
Speaker:When you say like having the bedroom cold, what kind of temperature
Speaker:range are we talking about?
Speaker:I know, like for me, I like to have a fan going, um, and, and have it a little
Speaker:cooler, maybe 68, somewhere in that range.
Speaker:Is there like an ideal temperature kind of setup that we're looking
Speaker:for to, to get that better sleep?
Speaker:I tell people a 65 to, uh, you know, 70 degrees is, uh, you
Speaker:know, is, is a good temperature.
Speaker:Um, and then the background noise, you know, I have a fan myself, so that's
Speaker:the white noise machine, so that's good.
Speaker:So temperature dark, and.
Speaker:See, whenever we go on a tropical vacation or mission trips, uh, uh, to, you know,
Speaker:hard places, you don't sleep there.
Speaker:Well, because your, your melatonin is not secreted.
Speaker:That's the number one, uh, reason why you don't sleep
Speaker:well, uh, on tropical vacations.
Speaker:Uh, so that's a little caveat for her, for all your listeners.
Speaker:So 65 to 70 is a, is a good, uh, temperature to sleep.
Speaker:Oh, that's cool.
Speaker:Um, how do you know.
Speaker:Hey, I have a sleep debt.
Speaker:And if you have a sleep debt, I mean, when you overdraw your bank account,
Speaker:that tells you, Hey, you're $5 overdrawn or you're $5,000 overdrawn.
Speaker:If you, how do you determine that you have a sleep debt?
Speaker:And then how do you know how.
Speaker:Deep that debt is.
Speaker:So I tell people to have a simple sleep diary, which is
Speaker:in my book, or a sleep journal.
Speaker:So you can measure, uh, just by, or you can use a tracker.
Speaker:I'm not a huge fan of Tracker, but, uh, because you know, you create sleep
Speaker:anxiety, but just a regular, then you, you see, hey man, I slept eight hours.
Speaker:I'm sleeping eight, 10 hours.
Speaker:So most of the time people are.
Speaker:Overcompensating because they didn't sleep the night, you know, they were partying,
Speaker:you know, they stayed up late for work or job related, and then they compensate.
Speaker:But if you see the consistency of the, uh, of the, you know, sleep
Speaker:that you recall requiring or lack thereof, then it's right there in
Speaker:your, uh, you know, in front of you.
Speaker:It's better to address that.
Speaker:Then the consequences of making a wrong decision because of sleep, death, you
Speaker:know, sleeping at the wheel, getting into an accident, mathematical error,
Speaker:uh, you know, no telling, uh, you know, how many events could have
Speaker:happened because of, uh, you know.
Speaker:Errors from people who are sleepy, right?
Speaker:I mean, I can go on it.
Speaker:I mentioned a few incidences in my, in my book.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Uh, you know, the things that at night just about at.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:So it's better to address it.
Speaker:Before the consequences, so the way to write it down in the morning
Speaker:or sometime in the afternoon from 10:00 PM eight midnight.
Speaker:A pattern of what your sleep is when you look at it, I, I make every
Speaker:patient who comes to me to fill that.
Speaker:So that's why, you know, in my, you know, on my website, in my
Speaker:sleep course and in my book, I have them, the visual is very clear.
Speaker:You know, people drink wine, they, when they exercise, all that affects.
Speaker:And, uh, the best part was, um, you know, one person said they only drank one wine.
Speaker:But they consistently were honest with themselves.
Speaker:They were drinking four or five and they were not sleeping well at night.
Speaker:So it was very easy.
Speaker:And one person was working out a lot.
Speaker:Uh, you order at 6:00 PM you know, and then they couldn't sleep.
Speaker:And I was like, man, push you to 6:00 AM or you know, and that changed their life.
Speaker:So, you know, it's a visual is very important.
Speaker:We are all visual learners.
Speaker:Yeah, that's, that's super important.
Speaker:And having that clarity, I think sometimes we're just too focused on
Speaker:the things around us to actually, you know, catch what actions we're doing,
Speaker:like having those four glasses of wine instead of what we believe is the two.
Speaker:Um, as far as like types of sleep, you know, we've got deep sleep
Speaker:and then we've got light sleep.
Speaker:Is there, like, if we are tracking our sleep, are there certain
Speaker:percentages that we should be looking at to say like, Hey, yes, I am
Speaker:getting the right type of sleeper.
Speaker:Hey, no, there may be a problem.
Speaker:I may have sleep apnea and you know, it's keeping me in the light sleep
Speaker:and I'm not, um, you know, getting.
Speaker:Like we talked about with the glymphatic system, right?
Speaker:I'm not getting that cleansing that should be going on.
Speaker:Is are there percentages we should be looking at if we are tracking?
Speaker:Yeah, so there are, um, two types of, um, you know, uh, sleeps, one's, uh, REM
Speaker:sleep, and then there's non-REM sleep.
Speaker:So the non-REM sleep is divided into one, two, and three.
Speaker:The stage three of non-REM sleep is the sweet sleep.
Speaker:Uh, and then the REM is divided into two phases, tonic and face.
Speaker:So there's huge misconception.
Speaker:Everybody thinks REM is actually the face, that's the stage that's needed.
Speaker:It's not actually true.
Speaker:We need REM sleep to heal problems, uh, you know, uh, consolidate memories.
Speaker:But to feel rested, you need.
Speaker:More of the, uh, stage three or n three of the non-REM sleep.
Speaker:So this is one Ms. I,
Speaker:so you need spent, you sleep is about, uh.
Speaker:Uh, you know, 60%, 65, uh, you know, within that, within that we spend 55% of
Speaker:our, our time, uh, in stage two sleep, which is halfway in between all this.
Speaker:So, uh, so it's about a 75, 25 split, 75, and non-REM sleep.
Speaker:The, uh, REM or REM sleep.
Speaker:So that's the general ratio.
Speaker:And if your REM sleep is even lower, then you might have condition called sleep
Speaker:apnea because your, you know, your sleep apnea gets even worse, uh, in REM sleep.
Speaker:So your body is not letting you go.
Speaker:That's why you don't dream.
Speaker:You know, when I treat people with CPA the first night, they have crazy
Speaker:dreams because they're something called.
Speaker:25. If you are, um, off the 25, uh, you need, um, I'm sorry, off
Speaker:the 75, you need at least about 30 of the N three, the sweet sleep.
Speaker:Uh, then, uh, REM is 25% and REM is less than 25%.
Speaker:Then you might have disorders like, uh, uh, sleep apnea.
Speaker:Uh, you know, you dream more in your REM sleep, but you do
Speaker:dream in your non-REM sleep too.
Speaker:So you enter sleep two stage one.
Speaker:Then you go to stage two, then you go to stage three, and then REM happens
Speaker:90 minutes into sleep, and then it's a 90 minute cycle, go in and out.
Speaker:It's so complicated.
Speaker:It's so pretty when you watch it, it's like a, you know,
Speaker:skyscraper of a, of a downtown.
Speaker:It goes up.
Speaker:And down, up and down.
Speaker:And we, the, the, the best news I can tell people is more sweet sleep
Speaker:happened earlier in the night.
Speaker:The REM sleep happens later in the night, uh, or towards the morning.
Speaker:That's why there's an advantage to going bed early because as,
Speaker:as the day progresses or, or closer to dawn, you might have the
Speaker:disturbances and you don't sleep.
Speaker:Uh, that, uh, deeply.
Speaker:So that's a.
Speaker:Yeah, that's, that's gonna be like, you know, critical instead of like, Hey, I
Speaker:got my seven, eight hours, but I went to bed at, you know, 2:00 AM not gonna
Speaker:be the same quality or the same, um, kind of sleep that you're talking about.
Speaker:If we did go to bed earlier, um, often we'll hear like, Hey, I went to the gym
Speaker:and you know, I'm, I'm eating clean.
Speaker:Can we still have problems as far as like, if we're not getting enough sleep
Speaker:at night, even if we are going to the gym, is that gonna impact not just
Speaker:like our mindset as far as like, you know, where we are mentally, uh, you
Speaker:know, kind of being in a fog, but is that also gonna like, stunt our body's
Speaker:ability to repair and, and really have that growth that we're after.
Speaker:Right now, you know, there's, uh, this exciting news in
Speaker:the world of sleep medicine.
Speaker:Uh, in the, in the past we thought it was just the brain that's helping us to sleep.
Speaker:It's all brain related, but now we know the muscles secrete
Speaker:something to help us sleep.
Speaker:Would you believe it?
Speaker:This is the exciting phase that's come.
Speaker:See, we all know the laborers sleep well.
Speaker:We thought they were tired, but actually they have.
Speaker:Uh, the muscles are, you know, making some, making some things to help us sleep.
Speaker:So this exciting phase that's, uh, happening in the world of sleep medicine.
Speaker:But when you exercise, you are creating heat and endorphins, which should
Speaker:prevent us from, from going to sleep.
Speaker:So I tell people not to work out at least three hours prior to sleep.
Speaker:So should be done at 6, 3, 4.
Speaker:Uh, so, um, when you sleep well, you have the energy to work out.
Speaker:I worked out the, today's my off day.
Speaker:Uh, I focus, I, you know, I work on my book.
Speaker:I play around a golf, not today, it's colder.
Speaker:Uh, so I worked out already.
Speaker:I was ready.
Speaker:I slept eight hours plus, uh, the muscles repair.
Speaker:Uh, the human growth hormone, which is very, very, uh, important
Speaker:for babies, uh, uh, to grow.
Speaker:Uh, that's why the baby's a little bit longer when they wake up.
Speaker:That's not a myth.
Speaker:That's true fact that a lot of, uh, human growth hormones is secreted
Speaker:in, in three sleep as the deep sleep.
Speaker:But we also need that for our muscles and glycogen, immuno storage and build muscle
Speaker:know sleep.
Speaker:Yeah, that's super cool.
Speaker:'cause otherwise you're like wired then more tired the next day.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Well, Dr. John, how can guys connect with you outside of the podcast here?
Speaker:You've left, you know, just left us with a whole bunch of information
Speaker:that's super critical for not only our brain, but our physical body, um,
Speaker:and just the quality of life overall.
Speaker:But if guys are like, Hey, I wanna know more, how can they get in touch
Speaker:with you outside of the podcast here?
Speaker:Uh, you know, I have my website, uh, online learning and, uh, many,
Speaker:you know, many podcasts that I'm on.
Speaker:It's called Sleep fix academy.com.
Speaker:I have a nice, uh, sleep course with people have difficulties, you know.
Speaker:Getting an appointment with a doctor, you know, whatever.
Speaker:I spoke in my 25 years of experience, it's a six weeks self-help course.
Speaker:Uh, you know, you can find that, uh, at sleep fix academy com.
Speaker:Plus my book is a bestselling book, uh, on sleep.
Speaker:Uh, you know, the nobody's, uh, sleeping, the seven proven, uh, sleep strategies.
Speaker:Uh, so it's on audible, it's on everywhere where books are sold.
Speaker:Um, so.
Speaker:So people can buy that or you can connect with me as I'm Dr. Uh,
Speaker:sleep Fix on all the social media.
Speaker:So I have a lot of nuggets on that.
Speaker:And so, I mean, I'm on this mission.
Speaker:I go on, you know, radio, tv, everywhere, uh, and podcast to,
Speaker:you know, send a good message.
Speaker:I think by Sleeping Matter, the world will be a better place, and
Speaker:that's what my mission is, Mike.
Speaker:Dr. John, I appreciate everything you've shared here today.
Speaker:Um, all the insights, the ways to get better sleep, and the
Speaker:value of having quality sleep.
Speaker:John, I appreciate it.
Speaker:Thank you very much for joining me today.
Speaker:Thank you, Mike.
Speaker:I appreciate you having me.
