Episode 404
How To Overcome Financial Stress And Find Purpose In Life with Scott Maderer
Have you ever felt trapped by financial struggles, unable to see a way out? In this episode I sit down with Scott Maderer to chat about how he overcame overwhelming debt and found a path to financial freedom and personal growth. Scott's journey is proof to the transformative power of honest communication, strategic decision making and focused, consistent action on a goal. He shares his experience of paying off over $78,000 in debt in less than three years while earning an average income of $55,000 - a task that seemed impossible at first.
Scott's story isn't just about money - it's about rediscovering purpose, rebuilding relationships and reinventing yourself. He shares how he transitioned from teaching to corporate leadership, and finally to his current role as a stewardship coach, all while staying true to his core strengths and values. Whether you're facing financial difficulties, considering a career change or simply seeking to live more authentically, Scott's insights offer a roadmap for personal and professional growth. His story reminds us that no matter how dire our circumstances may feel, there's always hope for a brighter future if we're willing to take that first step.
In this episode, you will be able to:
- Learn how to overcome financial challenges and strengthen your marriage.
- Uncover the secrets to finding your true calling and living a purpose driven life.
- Unlock the benefits of personal and professional coaching for accelerated growth.
- Master the art of managing your time, talent and treasures for a fulfilling life.
- Explore powerful strategies for living a debt-free and financially empowered life.
The key moments in this episode are:
00:11:25 - Challenges of Managing Finances and the Impact of Debt
00:18:47 - Connection of Finances with Personal Growth and Spritual Life
00:23:30 - Male Communication and Financial Stress
00:25:18 - Exploring the Meaning of Career and Vocation
00:31:57 - Overcoming Fear of Change
00:39:05 - Framework for Inspired Living
00:40:28 - The Value of Coaching
00:41:51 - The Importance of Self-Investment
Connect with Scott Maderer
Website
https://inspiredstewardship.com/livingfearless
https://www.linkedin.com/in/csmaderer/
https://www.instagram.com/stewardcoach/
https://www.facebook.com/InspiredStewardship
Connect with Mike Forrester
Podcast Website
https://LivingFearlessTodayPodcast.com
Coaching Website
https://www.linkedin.com/in/hicoachmike/
Youtube
https://www.youtube.com/@hicoachmike
https://www.facebook.com/hicoachmike
https://www.instagram.com/hicoachmike
Transcript
Hello and welcome back my friend.
Speaker:Man, there are times when we're gonna hit those challenges and those
Speaker:challenges can just seem overwhelming.
Speaker:Like there's, there's no other hope.
Speaker:There's not a way out.
Speaker:And today I'm talking with Scott Maderer and Scott has been in that place.
Speaker:I've been in that place.
Speaker:And first off, we'd like to encourage you, there is a way out.
Speaker:But in Scott's story that we're gonna get into today, you're gonna see where
Speaker:finances, man, they can just be that one thing that becomes like the chains
Speaker:that keep you in that prison where it locks you up and you don't see a way out.
Speaker:There is a way out, but oftentimes we've gotta persevere and stick with
Speaker:it and look for, you know, just.
Speaker:Other ways of, of looking at our situation.
Speaker:Dude, we're gonna get into some powerful stuff here with Scott.
Speaker:I'm super excited about it.
Speaker:So Scott has his own podcast.
Speaker:He's up to 1600 episodes.
Speaker:And so the man has definitely a lot of knowledge to, provide , and his
Speaker:podcast has inspired, stewardship.
Speaker:And so it's talking about our time, our talents, our treasures,
Speaker:what are we doing with our life?
Speaker:And you're gonna see that.
Speaker:You know what?
Speaker:Just because of where you're at now doesn't mean you're stuck there.
Speaker:Scott's, you know, taken the time, stopped reinvented himself four times.
Speaker:Not just once, but four times.
Speaker:That means you don't have to get it right on the first time.
Speaker:There's grace, but it takes their giving ourselves grace.
Speaker:So we're gonna jump in here.
Speaker:Scott's got a lot to, uh, just give us as far as insights and wisdom, so
Speaker:we're not gonna take any more time.
Speaker:Scott, how are you doing today, my friend?
Speaker:I am doing great.
Speaker:I'm trying to stay warm, so even though I'm in Texas, we managed to get snow,
Speaker:which is really unusual for us here.
Speaker:So we're not prepared for it.
Speaker:I don't, there are.
Speaker:Quite a few places that are not prepared when that snow gets that far south and
Speaker:it's like, could I drive on the freeway?
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Should I drive on the freeway?
Speaker:No, it's not just about us, it's also about those that are driving around us.
Speaker:So yeah, just to
Speaker:keep in mind, somebody told me the other day, I'm not even sure that this is
Speaker:a hundred percent true, but I'm gonna treat it like it's true 'cause it.
Speaker:It could be, uh, you know, my, my son lives up in Dallas-Fort Worth,
Speaker:and, and somebody said that Dallas, the metroplex largest city in
Speaker:all of Texas owns six snowplows.
Speaker:And I'm like, yeah, that tracks, that sounds about right.
Speaker:You know, we don't need them, so.
Speaker:Yeah, you don't need 'em until you need 'em.
Speaker:That's the problem.
Speaker:But what it happens is it snows.
Speaker:We all just stay home.
Speaker:We're just like, no, we're not.
Speaker:No, we're just, Nope.
Speaker:Yeah, it's, it, it's when those storms hit that it's like a whole new awareness
Speaker:about, um, do I really need to go out?
Speaker:Comes about, so like, I don't need, I don't
Speaker:need milk that bad.
Speaker:It's probably honestly not on the shelf anymore, Scott.
Speaker:It's probably been rated already in, in the milk, the bread and toilet paper.
Speaker:That's, you
Speaker:go to the store and, and milk, bread and toilet paper are always gone.
Speaker:It's like, really?
Speaker:Why?
Speaker:Why these three items?
Speaker:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker:Well, dude, Scott, I. Let's jump in and what does life look like on the
Speaker:professional side of things for you today?
Speaker:Uh, well today, today I find myself as a, uh, what I call a stewardship coach.
Speaker:So just like the podcast is about stewardship, time, talent, and
Speaker:treasures, that's what I call myself, uh, as the coaching that I do.
Speaker:So a lot of times, you know, the, the trick is that a lot of times
Speaker:people feel like, you know, man, there's stuff I'm supposed to do.
Speaker:I'm supposed to be living this out.
Speaker:I'm supposed to be, you know, starting this side thing or
Speaker:working more in this area.
Speaker:And it could be in the thing that they're already doing.
Speaker:It could be something else, but they feel I'm just not able to live
Speaker:into it quite as much as I should.
Speaker:And a lot of times they feel like what's holding them back is either time or money.
Speaker:I don't have enough time, I don't have enough money.
Speaker:Truth is, I, I trick people.
Speaker:They come to me for help with time or money, and then all we work on
Speaker:is talent because at the end of the day, the way you handle your time
Speaker:and the way you handle your money is actually about how you handle yourself.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:It's not really about time or money.
Speaker:Those are the symptom.
Speaker:They're not actually the problem.
Speaker:And so we end up working mainly on talent, but, but the areas that people
Speaker:come for help is usually time or money.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:The bigger pain points that are screaming in your face going,
Speaker:Hey, I don't have enough.
Speaker:Uh, yeah, usually the ones that move the needle, but uh, really
Speaker:aren't the fuel, so to speak.
Speaker:Like, uh, you know, you're, you're showing people, hey, the ears
Speaker:behind the curtain, this is what you actually need to, uh, invest in.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:The, the symptom is very seldom actually the solution.
Speaker:Um, that goes for a lot of things.
Speaker:You know, you, you're having, having problems in your relationship.
Speaker:Usually that's a symptom.
Speaker:There's something else going on, you know, that's deeper.
Speaker:Um, and same thing happens with our time and our money.
Speaker:When, when you're not living into your, your, you know, your priorities,
Speaker:you're going to feel conflicted.
Speaker:You know, when you're not living into your priorities with your time, when you're
Speaker:not living into your priorities with your money, you're gonna feel conflicted.
Speaker:You're gonna feel strained, you're gonna feel stress.
Speaker:And a lot of times the things we think that solve those problems end up
Speaker:actually making those problems worse.
Speaker:Yeah, I think back, uh, the way I was tricked into, you know,
Speaker:realizing, Hey, I, I have problems.
Speaker:I am the problem.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Um, was actually, I was doing coaching through somebody for business, right.
Speaker:I took that big leap and I said, I need help.
Speaker:In the area of business.
Speaker:Truth was I needed help, period.
Speaker:And uh, as we were going through coaching over the weeks and the
Speaker:months, and you know, I'm sitting there going, Hey, I've got this.
Speaker:And then it became talking about, you know, home life and everything.
Speaker:It was like I.
Speaker:Oh my gosh, it's me and I'm showing up at home and at work
Speaker:as the same person and the same
Speaker:person.
Speaker:And so the pain points, the issues were consistent.
Speaker:Only they were amplified at home because I didn't have, you know,
Speaker:clients or you know, people that I was looking to engage with.
Speaker:That wouldn't put up with what I was doing at all.
Speaker:So it wasn't, uh, it wasn't as loud on the volume scale you might
Speaker:schedule call you on your, on your
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:They, they put up with a lot that they should not have.
Speaker:But, um, you know, it was one that it came to bear and came to light when,
Speaker:when the timing was right and then things began to, to be addressed and changed.
Speaker:But it's funny how, like you talked about.
Speaker:What's actually got our attention isn't necessarily, you know,
Speaker:what should have our attention and, uh, you know, is the root.
Speaker:Well, it's, well the truth
Speaker:is all coaching is life coaching.
Speaker:At the end of the day, it's just a matter of what lens of your
Speaker:life you're coming at it from.
Speaker:You know, so when I do financial coaching, the lens that we're having,
Speaker:the conversation is around finances.
Speaker:When I work with business owners, well it may be around
Speaker:business when I'm working with.
Speaker:It's the lens that we're looking at it or the frame that we're looking at it.
Speaker:But at the end of the day, let's face it, it's all about really your life, you know?
Speaker:And so it's all life coaching really.
Speaker:It's just what lens are we looking at it through?
Speaker:Yeah, that's so accurate.
Speaker:Well, let's jump over to the personal side.
Speaker:What does life look like for you today in the area of personal?
Speaker:So today, um, you know, uh, we're actually really blessed.
Speaker:Um, so I've, I've lived, we lived for about 25 years out in kind of the middle
Speaker:of nowhere south Texas, um, where we drove an hour to go to the grocery store.
Speaker:You know, I used to explain to people I live 45 minutes from Walmart,
Speaker:Starbucks, or McDonald's, you know, just 'cause people can get.
Speaker:Wow, that is out in the country.
Speaker:Uh, we recently moved, we actually moved, uh, late, uh, 2024 to, uh, a
Speaker:house in, uh, the Bryan Texas area.
Speaker:Um, so came up here to get a little closer to my mom and, and my family and
Speaker:help out some of, with, with her and her situation and that kind of thing.
Speaker:So it was, it, luckily some folks that we used to live with
Speaker:my mother-in-law and, you know.
Speaker:Some folks moved back down there that could help take care
Speaker:of her and, and support her.
Speaker:And so we were able to move up here.
Speaker:So, you know, everything kind of worked out or we were able to, so my
Speaker:wife and I live up here and in a, uh, a nice house in Brian with, we bought
Speaker:a house and got chickens with it.
Speaker:Um, they weren't able to take the chickens, so they're like,
Speaker:would you keep the chickens?
Speaker:We're like.
Speaker:You know, we'll, we'll, we'll do that.
Speaker:Whatever.
Speaker:It was really a blessing situation.
Speaker:Just a lot of things tumbled into place the, the right way.
Speaker:Um, so we've been up here just for about four months now.
Speaker:Um, so not that long yet, but we're loving it.
Speaker:We're now I. Went from an hour, from everything to 15 minutes.
Speaker:From everything.
Speaker:You know, we, there's four grocery stores within 15 minutes.
Speaker:So, you know, it's like that.
Speaker:I have an adult son.
Speaker:He lives up in the Dallas, uh, area.
Speaker:He's been working.
Speaker:He is about to turn 22.
Speaker:He has a full-time job, uh, keeps getting promoted, so you
Speaker:know, he's doing something right.
Speaker:So we're glad about that.
Speaker:For some reason, he wanted to move near Dallas.
Speaker:I, I. I don't know.
Speaker:His girlfriend moved, went, moved up there and I, for some reason, he wanted to live
Speaker:up there instead of close to mom and dad.
Speaker:I, I don't really get it.
Speaker:I'm kidding.
Speaker:I get it.
Speaker:Um, so, you know, he's up there working and, and starting his life up there.
Speaker:I have a adopted daughter and her two girls that are, are my
Speaker:goddaughters that, uh, live kind of.
Speaker:Close to back where we used to live, but we are still ve in their life.
Speaker:So it's just blasted a lot of different ways.
Speaker:Um, you know, we're finding a church up here, finding new con contacts up
Speaker:here, you know, kind of rebuilding.
Speaker:We're in that rebuilding phase.
Speaker:Um, as I told someone the other day, they're like, where
Speaker:do you like to go to eat?
Speaker:I'd be like, we're still in the, we're gonna go anywhere and try
Speaker:anything phase, you know, it's like, we haven't found the list yet.
Speaker:So it's that kind of, that kind of situation.
Speaker:And now with the move, congratulations, by the way, on the new place, you've
Speaker:probably got a lot more places to pick from than what you did,
Speaker:you know, just four months ago.
Speaker:absolutely.
Speaker:Yeah, there's, there were three restaurants where we used to live.
Speaker:Now there's, you know, 300 restaurants.
Speaker:'cause this is college town, so there's a lot of food.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Then, then it's definitely, uh, changed and morphed on that scale for you.
Speaker:Well, Scott, let's, let's kind of jump back.
Speaker:I alluded to this when we were talking at the beginning.
Speaker:Um, there was one point where the finances, you know, now
Speaker:where it's plentiful and it's a very different situation.
Speaker:That wasn't at all the case, man, you know, the finances had, had gotten
Speaker:tight and that caused other things to, you know, then, then come about.
Speaker:Can you take us back to that time, how things kind of led up and, and what.
Speaker:Really on your mind and, and what you were looking at?
Speaker:Sure.
Speaker:Um, I, I can, I can share some of that.
Speaker:So, you know, back, uh, I'm gonna go back even a little further.
Speaker:So, you know, I had, uh, grown up, uh, doing different things.
Speaker:Graduated from college and I was a school teacher.
Speaker:Uh, I actually married my high school sweetheart.
Speaker:We were together for a while and then we'd actually gotten divorced.
Speaker:Um, I met my current wife, you know, we.
Speaker:She was going through a divorce.
Speaker:I've gone through a divorce.
Speaker:We both got divorced and then we kind of started hanging out and it's like, huh,
Speaker:well maybe we should try this again.
Speaker:But, you know, with each other instead of with the, the first, we
Speaker:both made a mistake the first time.
Speaker:Let's see if this has worked the second time.
Speaker:And, uh, so we'd gotten together and, and started, you know,
Speaker:kind of rebuilding our life.
Speaker:We'd moved to that place in the middle of nowhere.
Speaker:You know, we'd lived in a couple of different places and then eventually
Speaker:moved out to that place in the middle of nowhere with family.
Speaker:We were doing all of that.
Speaker:I was still school teaching.
Speaker:And at that, you know, I, I know this is a shock, but school
Speaker:teachers aren't paid real well.
Speaker:Um, I, I know it's shocking.
Speaker:Um, you would think that they were probably paid like
Speaker:doctors, but they're not.
Speaker:So I was doing a lot of long hours, a lot of hard work, really
Speaker:very little money building up and, you know, doing that work.
Speaker:And my wife and I were working on the house that we were living in
Speaker:and, you know, fixing that up, buying furniture, buying other things.
Speaker:Basically just doing normal American stuff.
Speaker:Living a little beyond our means, but doing it pretty consistently
Speaker:and debt started piling up.
Speaker:I, I've always had clinical depression.
Speaker:I've, I, I actually, as a teenager had committed, you know,
Speaker:attempted suicide a few times.
Speaker:This is something that has not a new thing, but it, it was, I'd kind of
Speaker:gotten some treatment and I moved past that when I went through the
Speaker:divorce and had been doing better.
Speaker:A lot of those feelings and those depressions began to come back to me.
Speaker:Uh, as with the debt went up, you know, I took more and more of that weight onto
Speaker:my shoulders of, you know, it's my job.
Speaker:I'm, I'm the guy, I'm the provider.
Speaker:I'm, I'm the breadwinner.
Speaker:I'm supposed to be taking care of my wife and eventually my baby son, but.
Speaker:You know, I'm not doing a good job.
Speaker:And so a lot of men take on a lot of their identity around their career and
Speaker:their ability to provide, again, rightly, wrongly, good or bad, a lot of us do that.
Speaker:And so I kind of felt like a failure.
Speaker:I began to internalize that idea that I'm not a good provider.
Speaker:And as that got heavier and heavier, you know, I took on more and more of it.
Speaker:I wasn't talk.
Speaker:I was gonna protect my wife.
Speaker:I wasn't gonna tell her about it.
Speaker:She knew, but you, I, I'm gonna, you know, my, my wife's a smart lady, but
Speaker:I'm gonna protect her, you know, and not tell her about all of this and
Speaker:not share, and not do all of that.
Speaker:I, I also, at that time, I had been raised in the church and had been very
Speaker:into to Christianity and, and the church.
Speaker:And I had actually left the church back in college because.
Speaker:Uh, well, quite frankly, I, I loved God, but I didn't like a lot of the people
Speaker:that I met in church, and so it felt a lot of hypocrisy and a lot of falsehoods
Speaker:and a lot of this sort of thing.
Speaker:And so I had left it and I actually called myself an atheist and an agnostic,
Speaker:and that's tied in because kind of all of this coincidentally began to come
Speaker:together as I was driving home at night.
Speaker:On a very windy road that had large drop offs on the side.
Speaker:And I began to think to myself, you know, if I just drive off the side of
Speaker:the road in the middle of the night, everyone will think I fall fell asleep.
Speaker:Insurance will pay out.
Speaker:My wife will be able to pay off the debt.
Speaker:She'll be okay.
Speaker:You know?
Speaker:At this time, we had a baby son at home.
Speaker:She'll be able to take care of him, she'll be able to take care of herself.
Speaker:And I'm thinking this night, after night after night, I hadn't done it, but I'm
Speaker:thinking about it and thinking about it and beginning to plan it out and
Speaker:beginning to figure out how I could do it, what, you know, where's the best
Speaker:drop off and these sorts of things.
Speaker:And.
Speaker:They, I used to listen to talk radio on the way home, not because I
Speaker:actually cared what was on talk radio.
Speaker:I, I wasn't even really listening to listen.
Speaker:It was just so there was a human voice talking to keep me awake.
Speaker:And they switched the lineup and they put on this Dave Ramsey show.
Speaker:I. And all of a sudden on a Friday night, I'm driving home and I'm
Speaker:hearing all these people, it was a re-broadcast of the show, but later in
Speaker:the day talking about being debt free.
Speaker:And I'm arguing with the radio, you know, this is stupid.
Speaker:You know, have, you know, and I'm hearing people whose
Speaker:situation was better than ours.
Speaker:And I'm hearing people whose situation was worse than ours.
Speaker:But I'm hearing all of these people talk about changing what they
Speaker:were doing and getting debt free.
Speaker:You know, I was mad, quite frankly, you know, and I'm yelling at the radio
Speaker:that you know how stupid this is.
Speaker:But Monday I'm driving home again and again.
Speaker:They're playing the same, you know, the show, but it's now not a Friday episode.
Speaker:And they're starting to talk about how, and I'll be honest, even to this day, I
Speaker:don't agree with everything Dave Ramsey says, or everything he puts out there.
Speaker:But at the same time, I was beginning to hear these little nuggets showing up
Speaker:over and over again, that really what it boiled down to is these people had decided
Speaker:we're gonna do something different.
Speaker:It, it was less about quote, these are the steps and more about,
Speaker:we've made a conscious decision to live in a way that is different
Speaker:than the way we've been living.
Speaker:And because of that, we got out of it and I basically said, you know, well maybe you
Speaker:know, before, instead of killing myself, 'cause this was the first couple of nights
Speaker:that I hadn't thought about it because I was so busy yelling at the radio that,
Speaker:you know, maybe there's something to this.
Speaker:So I went.
Speaker:The next weekend and I went and found my wife and I said, Hey,
Speaker:you know, here's our situation.
Speaker:Here's what's been going on.
Speaker:I've been listening to this radio show on the way home.
Speaker:She says, you mean Dave Ramsey?
Speaker:And I'm like, well, yeah.
Speaker:And she's like, yeah, I listened to it during the day with dad.
Speaker:And I'm like, okay.
Speaker:And she's like, and yeah, I know that's how much debt we're in
Speaker:and I know what's been going on.
Speaker:And you know, I mean, again, she knew all of this smart woman.
Speaker:But I wasn't sharing it with her 'cause I was gonna protect her.
Speaker:And I basically told her how I'd been feeling, told her that
Speaker:I'd been suicidal and said, you know, do you want to leave me?
Speaker:You know, or do you want to change what we're doing and do
Speaker:something completely different?
Speaker:And she said, no, I don't wanna leave you.
Speaker:Let's do it.
Speaker:You know, we can, we can make this work.
Speaker:And so we began making different decisions, began changing things.
Speaker:And over two years and 11 months, I am not allowed to round that up to three years.
Speaker:My wife will come through that door and beat me.
Speaker:Um, so it was two years, 11 months.
Speaker:We paid out, paid off.
Speaker:78,850. Mm-hmm.
Speaker:$6 and 46 cents.
Speaker:Or that might have been eight.
Speaker:$54 and 40 or 68 cents.
Speaker:But anyway, brain cramp, not sure, but over $78,000 we paid
Speaker:off in those two years, 11 months.
Speaker:And at that time I was making an average income about 50 5K.
Speaker:So you can kind of do the back of envelope math and realize we
Speaker:were living on nothing, you know?
Speaker:Um, and again, that's not the way everyone should do it.
Speaker:That's the way we chose to do it.
Speaker:In that same time, I also kind of began to open myself back up to the idea of
Speaker:returning to church and returning to my relationship with God and those sorts of
Speaker:things, and began to do that, uh, as well.
Speaker:So it not only changed the way I was walking, I. In my relationship
Speaker:with my wife, it changed how we were walking with our finances and
Speaker:the decision we were making there.
Speaker:It changed, in my case, the the walk that I had in my spiritual life.
Speaker:That's one of the things you find a lot of times when you work on one area.
Speaker:It makes changes.
Speaker:I. It ripples out.
Speaker:And when you decide to get healthy, that ripples out into other areas when you
Speaker:decide to get your money in order, that ripples out into other areas when you
Speaker:decide to get, you know, whatever it is.
Speaker:And so that kind of was the beginning, uh, of that change.
Speaker:Now again, it took a lot of time.
Speaker:It took a lot of work.
Speaker:We made a lot of mistakes.
Speaker:You know, I changed careers in the middle of that.
Speaker:Went into the corporate world, did that for 11 years.
Speaker:Um, and then.
Speaker:Left a very high paying, very high-end corporate job to go start my own
Speaker:coaching business, which everyone told me I was completely crazy to do.
Speaker:Um, but did that, and, you know, that's, that's where we are
Speaker:now and what we've been doing.
Speaker:I started part-time in 2011 and full-time in 2017.
Speaker:So that's what we've been doing for that long.
Speaker:That is
Speaker:a
Speaker:lot, Scott.
Speaker:Wow.
Speaker:That's the short version.
Speaker:Would you like the long version?
Speaker:No, no, no, no, no.
Speaker:I
Speaker:can, I, I can appreciate the highlights here and it, and when
Speaker:you were sharing about trying to, you know, protect your wife, dude.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:It is, it is scary how many times.
Speaker:Oh yeah.
Speaker:That is like a super common.
Speaker:More times than not, you're gonna see that with, with the guys where it's
Speaker:like, yep, I'm protecting my wife by not telling her what's going on.
Speaker:Dude, I did it in my infant wisdom spot it.
Speaker:It was like, sh, I'm gonna protect my wife if I don't tell her She doesn't know,
Speaker:right?
Speaker:Nope.
Speaker:Sorry.
Speaker:My wife, just like yours knew.
Speaker:Everything that was going on may not have known all the details, but it's
Speaker:not like, you know, I was masquerading and, and keeping secrets from her.
Speaker:She knew exactly what was going on.
Speaker:It's like, you know, it would've been so much easier just being open and
Speaker:honest and I wouldn't have had to worry about the whole thing of, you know, uh.
Speaker:Keeping the secret, like there's like stress involved in that in
Speaker:and of itself with the energy.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah,
Speaker:yeah.
Speaker:All of a sudden you've got somebody who's on your side who's working with
Speaker:you, who's pulling the cart beside you instead of you're now working.
Speaker:You know, imagine it's like two horses hooked up to a wagon, right.
Speaker:And one of 'em.
Speaker:Is, is hooked up and pulling on the wagon, and the other one doesn't
Speaker:even know there's a wagon, you know?
Speaker:Well, it, it, it, it's, you're not making any as much progress.
Speaker:And Please, I'm not comparing our wives to horses or, or us,
Speaker:but you, you get, you know, the idea, the analogy understood, man.
Speaker:And yet at the same time, it, it's when we work together, when we get
Speaker:on the same page, when we align things, we got better communication.
Speaker:All of a sudden it's like, eh.
Speaker:This is, this is what we're after.
Speaker:You know, we can, we can do this, we can make this work.
Speaker:And even though the problem is exactly the same.
Speaker:you've got a built in accountability partner.
Speaker:You've got a built in another brain that is smart and wise and able
Speaker:to see things that you can't see.
Speaker:We're kind of stupid, you know, enlisting them for help and communicating with them.
Speaker:But, you know, I, I'll speak for myself.
Speaker:I don't know about any other guys, but you know, occasionally
Speaker:as a guy I'm kind of stupid.
Speaker:So there you go.
Speaker:I think that's like universal.
Speaker:So it's, it's one of those of like, Hey, why would I not.
Speaker:Take the help, but in the moment just, I mean, it's the same kind of
Speaker:thing when I look back, Scott, it's like with our finances, when we hit
Speaker:those kind of situations where it's like I'm at a point of desperation.
Speaker:I don't know what to do other than this extreme action because there's
Speaker:no more rope to, you know, to go down.
Speaker:If I would've looked, you know, talked with my wife, it's like she's
Speaker:up at the top of the cliff with a longer rope, a stronger rope.
Speaker:But if I just talk to her and, and share what's going on, Hey, there's another way.
Speaker:It's almost like I'm hampering myself.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Because I'm not taking that action.
Speaker:But in that moment, Scott, I never saw it in that perspective.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:It was, it was like, I am, I'm protecting my fragile wife.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:My wife has anything but fragile, so, and she wears combat boots.
Speaker:Well, again,
Speaker:it's, we're wired, we're wired in a way sometimes to be, you know, to be
Speaker:that, that protector, that, that, that.
Speaker:Provider, that person that is taking care of the situation.
Speaker:And, and whether it's gen, you know, whether it's genetic wiring
Speaker:or whether, you know, I, I, I actually have a degree in genetics.
Speaker:And you know, the, the question of is it nature or nurture?
Speaker:Is it your wiring or is it how you are brought up?
Speaker:And, you know, truth is geneticists, don't ask that question.
Speaker:We've answered that question a long time ago.
Speaker:The answer is yes.
Speaker:It's both, you know, it's really just a matter of how much of each is it.
Speaker:It's not a matter of, is it one or the other.
Speaker:And so this goes with that wiring too.
Speaker:In part, it's our culture and the way we're raised and what we're
Speaker:taught and the messages we hear, and then there's also some genetic and
Speaker:biology kind of components to it.
Speaker:It's, it's some of both, but what it boils down to is at the end of the day, those
Speaker:work together to create a situation where.
Speaker:We, we don't wanna communicate it, it, we don't wanna talk about it.
Speaker:We don't wanna own the emotions.
Speaker:We wanna focus on the, the practical stuff and the, the, the steps
Speaker:and the process and all of that.
Speaker:We wanna be good providers.
Speaker:We wanna take care of everything we wanna, and what ends up happening, by the way,
Speaker:the number one cause of male suicide, financial problems, and financial stress.
Speaker:Um, why?
Speaker:Because we own it and we put our identity into what we're
Speaker:doing around the area of money.
Speaker:Truth is how much you make has nothing to do with your calling, has nothing
Speaker:to do with how you are a provider.
Speaker:You know, has nothing to do with your identity, who you are as a man.
Speaker:But yet we feel that way.
Speaker:And so because of that, it creates those stress environments that
Speaker:often will lead men down a road of, you know, I'm just gonna clam up.
Speaker:I'm gonna protect everybody.
Speaker:I'm gonna own all of this myself.
Speaker:Which can in extreme situations lead to, to suicide and other
Speaker:decisions that aren't, uh, that are very permanent solutions to what
Speaker:truly could be temporary problems.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And more times than not, it is temporary and yet we only look at it
Speaker:as this final overwhelming situation.
Speaker:Well, let's, let's jump off into one thing that you just mentioned
Speaker:a moment ago in, in calling.
Speaker:So what is calling and is it the same as purpose?
Speaker:How do you get to it?
Speaker:Like how do you discover her?
Speaker:Like, Hey, this is my calling.
Speaker:Um, can you kind of walk us through that?
Speaker:So calling is always, uh, it's one of those things that's kind
Speaker:of a hard subject to, to talk.
Speaker:So we actually use two different words, uh, that are in, in our culture.
Speaker:We treat these as, as interchangeable, meaning the same thing.
Speaker:And yet the reality is they're, they don't.
Speaker:So one is career and the other is vocation.
Speaker:So literally those two words mean something different.
Speaker:So a career actually comes from a Latin word that means cart, it means
Speaker:a mode of transportation to get you from point A to point B. Okay?
Speaker:We've now come to, to use that for our, the thing we do a job
Speaker:that provides money, you know, to get us from point A to point B.
Speaker:If you think about your career, right, it's what you do.
Speaker:It's a. It could be a business owner, it could be an employee.
Speaker:You know, you're, you're an HVAC guy, you work in construction, but it's, it's the
Speaker:role that we have that generates income.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:The word for.
Speaker:Calling the word vocation.
Speaker:Vocation, literally the same route as vocal to speak, to be called
Speaker:to have a message come to us.
Speaker:Okay?
Speaker:So calling it implies something different than our career.
Speaker:It's something that comes from outside.
Speaker:You know, I believe it comes from, from God, a, a, a play, a creator, or an
Speaker:outside being that's greater than me.
Speaker:I don't care what name you wanna give it, and I don't even care if you
Speaker:believe that there is such a thing.
Speaker:It comes from outside of us.
Speaker:It is related to our purpose.
Speaker:It may not be exactly the same as our purpose or our passion, but
Speaker:there's, there's overlap there.
Speaker:It, it's things that oftentimes the stuff that comes to us that whenever we do it.
Speaker:We feel like we're living into something authentically.
Speaker:It's giving us energy, it's giving us, it could even be really hard.
Speaker:It could even be something that you gotta work really hard at, but
Speaker:it doesn't matter when you do it, you feel like, man, this is it.
Speaker:I'm jazzed.
Speaker:You know, I'm, I'm ready to go.
Speaker:And oftentimes we confuse those and we think, oh, to live my calling, I have to
Speaker:have my career align a hundred percent with the thing that gives me passion.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Truth is maybe.
Speaker:Also, maybe not.
Speaker:Um, career and calling are two different things.
Speaker:They don't have to overlap.
Speaker:They can, but they don't have to.
Speaker:By the same token calling is one of those things that we don't
Speaker:usually arrive at in completion.
Speaker:In other words, we don't get there in one step.
Speaker:you know, instead to quote the great philosopher Shrek,
Speaker:it's like an onion, right?
Speaker:You gotta pull back the layers.
Speaker:You gotta keep peeling back and finding out what are the
Speaker:things that give me energy.
Speaker:And so, as an example, you know, I was a school teacher.
Speaker:I worked in the corporate world.
Speaker:Now I'm a coach.
Speaker:But my mom will tell you that even when I was eight years old, I was always the
Speaker:guy that other people came to for advice.
Speaker:I was always the guy that other people came to for help.
Speaker:I was always the guy that, you know, in high school, I was always the guy that was
Speaker:friends with all the girls and gave them great advice, but was never asked for a
Speaker:date, you know, because I was the friend.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:You know, you are friend zoned, but it's because I was that person.
Speaker:They, they knew they could come to me and they could have somebody listen
Speaker:and, and not necessarily tell 'em what to do, but empathize and, and
Speaker:ask questions and do those sort.
Speaker:That's coaching.
Speaker:Well, when I was a school teacher, I hated being the teacher that stood in the front
Speaker:of the room and lectured the whole time.
Speaker:Not that I didn't ever do that.
Speaker:There were times that that was the appropriate way to convey information,
Speaker:but there were a lot more times that I was looking for activities that we could
Speaker:do and labs and asking questions and challenging the kids to come up with.
Speaker:That's coaching, you know, it only, it isn't because it was in
Speaker:the framework of being a teacher.
Speaker:So were there things in teaching that I hated?
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:Are there things today as a coach that I don't like doing?
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:You know, because you guess what?
Speaker:I've yet to hear somebody get up in the morning and go, Hey,
Speaker:I get to do laundry today.
Speaker:Woo-hoo.
Speaker:You know, it it, I mean, I'm sure there's somebody out there that that's
Speaker:what jazzes them, but a lot of us, that's just something you have to do
Speaker:'cause you're alive and you're living.
Speaker:Same thing happens with our, our calling.
Speaker:There's parts that are associated with it that you may have to do that are
Speaker:uncomfortable or difficult or not fun, so that you can spend as much time
Speaker:as you can doing those things that.
Speaker:At the end of the day, it's like, wow, this gives me energy.
Speaker:This, this feeds my soul.
Speaker:This makes me feel more complete.
Speaker:And so guess what?
Speaker:Moved into the corporate world.
Speaker:I was eventually promoted to role where I was developing
Speaker:other leaders in the company.
Speaker:I . Well, guess how I did that?
Speaker:I did it through coaching.
Speaker:You know, I did it through asking questions.
Speaker:I did it through challenging the way people think I did it through creating
Speaker:frameworks and, and systems and processes, all the same stuff I do now.
Speaker:So even though my assignment has changed multiple times, I
Speaker:roll the career that I have.
Speaker:If you look at back, there's this thread that kind of runs.
Speaker:Between it that is related to how I've made, how I'm called,
Speaker:how I'm created to do something.
Speaker:And you know, I'm good at it.
Speaker:It gives me energy, it gives me joy.
Speaker:It, it's something that is more deep than just I'm a coach.
Speaker:You know, by the way, I don't know.
Speaker:I may be changing again at some point and doing something different, but
Speaker:the thread will still be there at just maybe playing out in a different way.
Speaker:I.
Speaker:With what you've described, I'm like, you have continued to like almost morph.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Through as the opportunities arise, as your perspective changes.
Speaker:I would look at it and I would've told you, Scott, I am who I am.
Speaker:I can't change, and if I thought I could change, it was like you're limited to one.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:How is it that you can continue on that growth cycle, you know,
Speaker:looking for, here's my calling, who, here's who I am, like you
Speaker:continue to grow and transform along.
Speaker:How are you continuing to give yourself the space and the opportunity more
Speaker:than just once, um, and not kind of dead end yourself, if that makes sense.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:You know, it, it's funny because first off, if, if you don't like
Speaker:change, welcome to the human race.
Speaker:None of us do.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:Um, you, we, we get comfortable.
Speaker:In the place that we're at, the things that we're doing, by the way
Speaker:we can get comfortable even with stuff that's really bad, right?
Speaker:You know, it, it's why people end up in, uh, you know, abusive relationships
Speaker:sometimes for way longer than they should, because even though it's bad, I.
Speaker:I don't know what's on the other side, you know, so I don't
Speaker:know if it's better or worse.
Speaker:I, I don't even know.
Speaker:I can't see it yet.
Speaker:And so I did it the same way that, you know, now.
Speaker:I sometimes help other people do it.
Speaker:I got help, you know, I, I enrolled, I got coaches, I got.
Speaker:Uh, people around me, my wife and others who were supportive of it,
Speaker:who began to say, you know, Hey, you could look at this a different way.
Speaker:You could, you could do something a little different.
Speaker:You know, have you tried this?
Speaker:I found ways to test it and try it on the side.
Speaker:You know, I, I, I think a lot of times, and sometimes we're forced to do this,
Speaker:but, but a lot of times, even when we're not forced to, part of our reticent is,
Speaker:oh, I'm gonna have to quit everything.
Speaker:I'm, you know, I'm gonna have to totally change everything.
Speaker:I'm gonna have to give up everything I'm doing, you know,
Speaker:there's no way I could do it.
Speaker:Yeah, but there's probably a way you can test it in a small
Speaker:scale or, or do it on the side.
Speaker:You know, find a way to do part of it and see if it really does feel more authentic.
Speaker:If it really does fit better.
Speaker:Uh, you know, if you really are able to, to, you know, I remember
Speaker:the first time somebody paid me for coaching and it was like.
Speaker:This is cool.
Speaker:You know, it's like, it's like, I, I, I would've done this for free
Speaker:and they gave me a check, you know?
Speaker:It's like, cool.
Speaker:You know, it, it's, it's all of those things and you start to get that
Speaker:reinforcement to come through that, huh?
Speaker:Maybe this change thing.
Speaker:Is it so overwhelming?
Speaker:It, it is something that I can do.
Speaker:So it's, it's not about, uh, you know, jumping off a cliff and
Speaker:building your wings on the way down.
Speaker:Sometimes it's instead about, you know, designing the plane,
Speaker:getting all the equipment together.
Speaker:You know, even maybe building a test flight or two and then going,
Speaker:okay, now I'll jump, you know, it's, it's things that you can do.
Speaker:And again, some people are wired where like, man, they can jump off the cliff,
Speaker:build their wings, doesn't matter.
Speaker:But most of us aren't wired like that.
Speaker:Most of us are more, you know, we would rather avoid pain than have pleasure.
Speaker:Most of us would rather it not hurt, you know, than we, would
Speaker:it feel good, so to speak.
Speaker:Um, if there's a lot of studies that show our cognitive biases, you know,
Speaker:lo we measure losses heavier than we measure gains, you know, so something
Speaker:takes somebody, takes something away from you that hurts worse.
Speaker:Then the good of somebody giving you the same thing.
Speaker:You know, it, it, we, we have all of these sort of built in biases
Speaker:that hold us back from change.
Speaker:And by the way, they're good things.
Speaker:They're survival characteristics.
Speaker:They help keep us alive.
Speaker:'cause you can imagine, you know, back.
Speaker:And the day if we were walking around and it's like, Hey,
Speaker:I'll just eat whatever I see.
Speaker:Let me grab that.
Speaker:Oh, you know, and you were real.
Speaker:You know, guess what?
Speaker:Some of those people got poisoned to died, you know, and so some of that
Speaker:reticent and some of that fear response is to protect us from the unknown.
Speaker:It's protect us from things that aren't good for us.
Speaker:The problem with it is we often then take that same wiring.
Speaker:That's a good thing.
Speaker:Let it keep us from things that are good for us that are able to do it.
Speaker:So, you know, how do you do it?
Speaker:You bring in support staff, you know, you bring in a team, you
Speaker:bring in other people, a, a coach, a mentor, a mastermind group.
Speaker:You know, I've done all of these things, you know, at one time or
Speaker:another, virtual mentors, you know, you and I were talking about Dan Miller,
Speaker:uh, he's one of my virtual mentors.
Speaker:He's he somebody that I learned.
Speaker:You know, uh, because I read his books and I listened to his podcast and I
Speaker:found other ways to engage with him.
Speaker:And he, he said things and, oh, well, yeah, he must be talking to me.
Speaker:You know, because it really resonated.
Speaker:So you find those things that help you reframe that fear into.
Speaker:I can do something different.
Speaker:You know, the, one of the things that I, somebody told me this one time
Speaker:back in the day when I was getting ready to do public speaking, and I've
Speaker:never really had that fear of public speaking that so many people do.
Speaker:But they said, you know, neurobiologically, in terms of the
Speaker:chemistry of your brain, what's released into your brain, the chemicals, fear and
Speaker:excitement is the same chemical cascade.
Speaker:So when you feel yourself being afraid.
Speaker:Relabel it as excitement.
Speaker:You know, I'm not afraid to get up there and speak.
Speaker:I'm excited by it.
Speaker:It's the same chemistry.
Speaker:Your brain will go, oh, okay.
Speaker:You must be excited.
Speaker:You know, it's like you can almost convince yourself to be excited instead
Speaker:of afraid, and do those things anyway.
Speaker:That, but you know, and again, do 'em in a way, it's not fatal.
Speaker:I am not a, I am, you know, all in at the poker table works in a James Bond movie.
Speaker:It doesn't work so well in real life, you know?
Speaker:So don't you know, that's not what I'm talking about.
Speaker:I'm not talking about being foolish.
Speaker:I'm talking about being wise, but finding ways to do it in a way that breaks down.
Speaker:Because here's the thing, once you start doing it and you see that
Speaker:it works, then it's like, huh.
Speaker:Maybe I can do this.
Speaker:You know, it, it reinforces the change as opposed to driving you away from it.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Take the risk, but don't take the, uh, reckless risk.
Speaker:There's risk and there's fatal risk.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:You know, I tell everybody, like with money, this is one of my expressions
Speaker:when I'm working with people in coaching, like money, I like to cheat.
Speaker:I wanna set it up where it's a situation where if everything goes right, I win.
Speaker:And if everything goes wrong, I don't lose.
Speaker:That's, that is really cool.
Speaker:I mean, I'll win, but I at least don't lose, you know?
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And if I can do that, you do that every time.
Speaker:And guess what?
Speaker:You'll win some and you don't lose some so you don't lose ground.
Speaker:And over time, guess what?
Speaker:If you have a few of the wins, you end up in the right place.
Speaker:You end up where you're trying to go.
Speaker:Scott, I wanted to touch on something.
Speaker:So your book that released, I wanna say it was July of 24.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Inspired Living.
Speaker:What would be, if, what point in life would it benefit me?
Speaker:Or is it like, Hey, regardless of where you're at, this is gonna benefit me.
Speaker:Like, what's in there and what kind of, you know, um, aims and aspirations or
Speaker:I. Desperations would, would be best, uh, to kinda line up to read the book.
Speaker:So honestly, what we were just talking about, if you found yourself
Speaker:resonating with any of that, it's probably a good read for you.
Speaker:So the subtitle, it's Inspired Living, and the subtitle is
Speaker:Assembling the Puzzle of Your Call.
Speaker:I'm mastering your time, your talent, and your treasures.
Speaker:And so it is that kind of framework of let's look at these areas of your life.
Speaker:Let's break down what you're doing and maybe what you could be doing different.
Speaker:And through that, I then want to encourage people to kind of,
Speaker:I, I teach 'em some frameworks.
Speaker:So one of 'em is invest in yourself, invest in others, develop your
Speaker:influence, impact the world.
Speaker:The idea is, you know, before we do anything to help others, we gotta
Speaker:make sure we're in the right place.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Then we turn that energy to help other people and then we can, from that
Speaker:naturally comes influence, and through that influence naturally comes impact.
Speaker:And so it's, it's that kind of progression.
Speaker:There's other frameworks I teach in it, so it's really about breaking down,
Speaker:you know, what you're doing, applying some new thinking, applying some new
Speaker:frameworks, and then through that.
Speaker:Beginning to improve in those areas.
Speaker:So it's a lot of the exercises I use with my clients, it's a lot of
Speaker:the tools I use with my clients.
Speaker:I just decided to, to put it in a book form.
Speaker:'cause you know, it turns out not everybody signs up for coaching
Speaker:and not everybody knows I exist.
Speaker:And it's just one more way of getting that message out in the world.
Speaker:So, you know, honestly.
Speaker:If you are in the place where you know that those things are holding
Speaker:you back and you wanna do something different, it's a good book for you.
Speaker:If you're convinced, you already know all the answers, you're not
Speaker:gonna get anything outta the book.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And and the funny thing is, man, when you talk about not everyone's ready
Speaker:for coaching, I. Honestly came in through the back door to coaching.
Speaker:That was one of those risks that I took.
Speaker:But the big hurdle was, at that time, Scott, I didn't
Speaker:think I was worth investing in.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:Like that was the first domino that needed to be tipped over
Speaker:to then get me to go like, oh.
Speaker:I am worthwhile investing and once that went, it was just like it fueled
Speaker:a fire that I did not know existed and I wanted to invest in myself
Speaker:because I knew it paid me dividends.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:It paid my family dividends because as I'm in a better place, we are
Speaker:all in a better place, not just financially but relationally.
Speaker:You know, like you talked about as far as career and vocation, dude, everything
Speaker:changed from that point forward, Scott.
Speaker:So it's like, and I would just encourage guys, if you're in that place where
Speaker:it's like you're teachable, not like Scott said with the second part,
Speaker:man, if you think you know it all, I.
Speaker:You can't be help.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And by the way, coaching doesn't help you then either.
Speaker:'cause
Speaker:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker:'cause you're not coachable.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I mean, the
Speaker:irony is coaching is we usually aren't telling you something
Speaker:that you don't already know.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:But the irony of coaching is what we're doing is changing
Speaker:the way you're looking at it.
Speaker:So all of a sudden you believe that, you know it.
Speaker:Mm. It, it's a weird dichotomy, you know?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And yet at the end of the day, yeah.
Speaker:If you're convinced, you already know all the answers and you
Speaker:already know what you need to know.
Speaker:You're not coachable.
Speaker:That's a different, you know, and, and that's fine by the way.
Speaker:That's not a bad thing.
Speaker:It's just that coaching's not gonna help you.
Speaker:'cause that's not what you're looking for.
Speaker:You need something different.
Speaker:Well, man, Scott, as we're wrapping up here, how can guys connect
Speaker:with you outside of this podcast?
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:So I put together a a page just for your listeners.
Speaker:So if you go over to my website, which is inspiredstewardship.com, and then
Speaker:just put in slash living Fearless.
Speaker:Then what you'll find there is a page that has some free resources that you could
Speaker:download as a way you could set up a call.
Speaker:If you wanna jump on a call with me, has the information about my book and
Speaker:where you can pick that up and my podcast and a few other resources on there.
Speaker:Uh, none of 'em except the book have any cost associated with them.
Speaker:Uh, you know, everything else is is free on there.
Speaker:And I'd be honored to connect with anybody who.
Speaker:Is interested in having a conversation, or even if it's just, you know, pick my
Speaker:brain and, and need to get a little help.
Speaker:Not nothing is, uh, uh, I'm not a real high pressure guy.
Speaker:Uh, maybe I should be, but I'm not.
Speaker:So I just love meeting people and helping people and, and
Speaker:finding out what's going on.
Speaker:So, again, you can find that at inspiredstewardship.com/livingfearless
Speaker:I
Speaker:appreciate it, Scott, and I will have all that in the show notes as well.
Speaker:Make it easier 'cause mm-hmm.
Speaker:I know if guys are like me, man, you're driving down the road.
Speaker:It's like, wait a minute, what?
Speaker:And I've got the grocery list and all these to-do things floating in my head.
Speaker:It's in the show notes.
Speaker:So just go there and the connection will be there.
Speaker:Scott, I appreciate your time and thank you for sharing that.
Speaker:It's like, dude, we are not stuck with who we are, nor is
Speaker:the situation that we're in.
Speaker:You know, that, that fatal kind of final, uh, situation that we're believing it.
Speaker:We just need to reach out, ask for help, and I think from both you
Speaker:and I, we can also give the advice.
Speaker:If you're married and you're hiding the situation from your wife,
Speaker:you're not,
Speaker:she already knows.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Just go to her, talk to her.
Speaker:Get somebody on your side there to help you, so absolutely.
Speaker:Scott, thank you again, my friend.
Speaker:I really appreciate it.
Speaker:Thank you.
Speaker:I'm honored to be here.
Speaker:Absolutely.
